Why didnt anyone have the good sense to save one of those beautiful Northerns Alco built for the D & H in 1943. I mean the J is the cream but they were sure niceengines. Anyone have any stories on how they ran?
There's a lot of engines that should have been saved but weren't but remember, the railroad bosses were businessmen, not historians. If it didn't add to the bottom line it didn't stay around very long. To us nowadays, it was a short-sided attitude, but those men were who they were.
The Carleton book "Eastern Steam Pictorial" says the D&H Northerns were superb. I concur, too bad none were saved.
Even better would've been a Consolidation or two. That's what they were perhaps best remembered for, thanks to advancing that wheel arrangement years longer than anyone else did, wringing performance out of them that rivaled or surpassed many locomotives with larger, more modern wheel arrangements.
Although not as representative as a Consolidation would've been, a Challenger would've been nice, too. As I recall, they far outnumbered their small fleet of Northerns as well.
Too bad...
Apart from some cosmetic items, Milwaukee 261 is pretty much identical to the D&H locomotives. If someone cared enough, you could dress up 261 to look exactly like a D&H Northern.
M636C
M636C Apart from some cosmetic items, Milwaukee 261 is pretty much identical to the D&H locomotives. If someone cared enough, you could dress up 261 to look exactly like a D&H Northern. M636C
Milwaukee Road fans might scream "Blasphemy" at that..
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groomer manYes I understand but it's still a shame but back then it was just a worn out hunk of metal. Sure would like to go back in time with a wad a cash and buy some up at scrap prices
Many of the steam locomotives were rebuilt and just out of the back shop with little or no miles except break in miles on them. The Union Pacific kept their shop forces working on locomotives and scrapped some of those in the back shop. Pictures of the 3715 was one of those. Steam was being retained for surges in business that never came in the late fifties. Not all roads did this, but several railroads maintained their steam power until they were written off. I have no knowledge of the D&H, but they did dieselize quicker than some western railroads. I toured the Illinois Central back shops at Centrailia Illinois and watched drive wheels being turned as late as 1956. The CB&Q roundhouse on the north end of town had three great looking 2-10-4's that were in prime looking shape until they were retired.
CZ
The sad thing was those D&H Northerns were anything but worn out. Theoretically they had at least another 20 to 30 years of service left in them, but as with all other 'roads the diesels swept them aside.
Other 'roads were the same, steam engines with many years of service left were scrapped, no need to go into the reasons why all over again.
Sic transit gloria mundi.
Some of the war time steamers like the nkp and pm Berkshires could not be scrapped. They were financed by equipment trusts and could not be scrapped before they were paid off, typically 20 years. They were stored unit these obligations were met, then promptly scrapped.
Leo_AmesAlthough not as representative as a Consolidation would've been, a Challenger would've been nice, too.
+1...
As I recall, the D&H wasn't in a great financial state at this time period and so the revenue from scrapping was important to finance diesels, unfortunately.
From a preservation point of view it's kind of a pity that the Delaware & Hudson dieselized as early as it did...I can't help thinking that if steam operations on the road had continued into the later 1950's there may have been more of an interest in saving one or more of the Hudsons and/or Challengers..
carnej1 M636C Apart from some cosmetic items, Milwaukee 261 is pretty much identical to the D&H locomotives. If someone cared enough, you could dress up 261 to look exactly like a D&H Northern. M636C
I wasn't suggesting that 261 be permanently altered...
But fitting running board valances and smoke deflectors (and a modified smokebox door with a recessed headlight) would give you a replica suitable for any D&H specific celebrations.
My real point was that the two types were built to pretty much the same drawings except for road specific external fittings, so no technical innovations were lost with the D&H Northerns, just their external appearance.
I think I prefer the Milwaukee locomotive as it is.
But the option is there if a "D&H Northern" was needed for some important event, an anniversary or similar.
Dress up another Northern to look like a D&H Northern? It's been done before, back in 1973 a Reading 4-8-4, 2102 to be exact, was dressed up D&H style for the D&H Sesquicentennial.
It also ran some excursions out of Hoboken NJ to Binghamton NY on the old Erie main line, May 26-27 1973. I was working in Ridgewood NJ at the time and just missed seeing it by seconds. I was several blocks away, I couldn't see it, but I sure HEARD it! WOW!
Lady Firestorm was trackside with her father, a real railfan, and saw it pass by up close. You should have seen Mr. H's face light up later when he raved about all that "RAW, NAKED, POWER!"
"Oh, Jack!" Lady Firestorm's mom exclaimed, "Such language!"
Firelock76 Dress up another Northern to look like a D&H Northern? It's been done before, back in 1973 a Reading 4-8-4, 2102 to be exact, was dressed up D&H style for the D&H Sesquicentennial.
So we should book 261 for the bicentennial in 2023...
1823 sounds a little early, was that the date of the D&H canal or of a horse worked line?
Right, 1823 was the date for the founding of the Delaware and Hudson Canal Company, the corporate predecessor to the D&H Railroad. When the railroads came along D&H went from one to the other.
Here's a interesting tidbit. Did you know there was a Cheaspeake and Ohio Canal Company? It came before the C&O railroad but aside from the name had no relationship to it at all.
Maybe 261 won't be needed for the D&H bicentennial. Maybe someone will have one of those Reading T-1's running again.
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