When all the World was New, What Color was the Bell?

[seppburgh2]

Recently purchased a retired steel bell from an Amtrak P-42 locomotive, displaced by an electronic version. Question is how to restore it to OEM condition?  Now this 45 pound steel bell is covered in railroad grime, a faded black rusty hue.  The patina is the same inside and out.

 My question to the experts is what color was the bell when the P-42s were new?  Amtrak Silver, flat black, glossy black, primer gray or natural steel?  In pulling back one of the insulation pads for one of the bolts on the top base of the bell, it looks to be this base was primer gray.  However, this base would have bolted to the locomotive and would have been covered by the frame (?)  Can't tell if the rest of the bell started off as primer gray.

Looking over eBay, there are other steel bells painted silver and gloss black, but lacking road grime, the patina is not right for an OEM appearance (more of a dress up to sell paint job.)

My restoration plan is to use the correct OEM color on the outside, and locomotive red for the interior and clapper assembly (any hints on where to find a Motor Housing and Stud plus the Clevis?)  

Can take owning a locomotive bell off my bucket list.  The folks in the neighborhood are going to love me come mid-night new-year’s eve!

[LensCapOn]

I would do a search for the GE P42, or GE Genesis, and look at the images.

 

Do you know where the bell lived?

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=GE+Genesis&FORM=HDRSC2

[seppburgh2]

Thank you LensCapOn.  After reviewing a lot of images last night, the conclusion of where the bell was located  is on the right side, right behind or under the front cowling.  There are no images showing the bell per say, found the location by looking at P42 models (one HO, one O27.)   What also confirms this for me is found on page 59 of the June, 2015 of Trains.  My bell matches the grit-n-grime displayed on the front track and steps of this P42 pictured there (See Fueled by Bad Intentions.)

Now as to the color.  It depends.  In the link you provided (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=GE+Genesis&FORM=HDRSC2) shows P42 with shinny black underframes, silver (phase IV) and gray (phase V) (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_paint_schemes) 

While the one patch of paint I did find, called this 'primer gray' in my original post, can't really say what was the original color.  But looking at the images, the phase V gray is an appealing color over bright silver or glossy black for a bell.

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3141/2932689800_55d9f1c563_z.jpg)

But, if anyone else can has bell paint color information, please post!

[ACY Tom]

I can't say for sure about the bell itself, but it should be noted that Amtrak locomotives are not black below the side sill.  They are a shade of gray.  I think this was true when the P42's were new, but can't say with 100% certainty.  My guess is that the bell was the same gray as the rest of the underbody.  You might wish to contact Amtrak for information about the original colors.  They might even be able to give you precise paint mixing information.

Tom

[seppburgh2]

Thanks for information.  There is a sight that goes into the verious "phase" of Amtrak paint plus special ones.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_paint_schemes

The black frames came out of view "GE P42" on Google Image

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/0/5/5/3055.1300303368.jpg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30707075@N08/5711243487

As a cross reference, believe this is the gray you are referring to:

http://hebners.net/amtrak/amtGEN42_200_207/amt201.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2576/3951714687_1dc7423e8f_z.jpg

And as a side bar for everyone's enjoyment,  here is a 'cab tale' of a P42 

http://mp154trainblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/inside-amtrak-ge-p42dc-locomotive.html

 

 

[ACY Tom]

Yes, engine 200 shows the color I had in mind.  Those with black below the sill are retro paint schemes.  As far as I know, P42's always had the gray color, although I guess it's possible I could be wrong.

The Wikipedia entry is too general to be of any real use here.  Underbody paint colors are pretty much ignored.  In fact, It looks like they even ignored the removal of names from most of Amtrak's sleepers.

Tom 

[bedell]

Are you sure you want to remove that authentic patina? On Antiques Roadshow, removing the original finish and patina can halve the value of the item. Think of all the miles on the railroad it took to make the bell look the way it does. But...it's your bell. Enjoy the project.

[cefinkjr]

Was it bright red inside?  I ask that question because I have never seen a steam locomotive bell that was not painted bright red on the inside.  Tradition!!

[Firelock76]

Seppburgh, what you've got on that bell isn't patina, it's crap!  Take it from a 40-plus year antique collector.

As it's a steel bell, you can be sure it had SOME kind of paint on it, in and out, to prevent corrosion.  Pick what you think is an appropriate color and stick with it, from what I've seen here it'll be next to impossible for anyone to say you're wrong.

[seppburgh2]

Want to say THANK YOU to everyone helping me out here.  First off, while this is not the bell purchased from eBay, this one has more rust-dust than mine plus more dings around the rim.  It gives a good indication of the patina the bell is covered with, inside and out. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191567966745?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I do agree with Bedell with preserving patina.  Years ago had the itch to look for a trolley bell.  After several months of searching on eBay, found a TAR (Third Ave. Railway) roof mounted bell.  It was picked up in 1946 in the yard scrapping the TAR cars by a young railfan.  “Picked it right off the ground as the cars had the king-pins removed and flipped over, shattering the ancient wood bodies all over the ground.”

Long story short, the bell lived within a Plymouth, basement and was only taken out for new years and “wake up the neighbors” party for years.  When I found the listing, the bell still had the original battle-ship gray roof paint, aged rust, and grime.  Character!  So would not even think of painting it or cleaning it.  Last year did find another on eBay, but someone ‘dressed it up’ in brushed on primer gray. The history and story got painted over (sad in comparison to the one I purchased.)  The reason the my TAR bell was being sold, said young railfan had retired and downsizing, so to his credit, “selling it to a good home that would have as much fun as I had.”  And it has been woven into my family history.  Best way to annoy a grown daughter working with Dad in the garage is for said Dad letting the trolley’s voice out, just to get the dust off.

With this Graham White bell, the character isn’t there.  Firelock76, you called it correctly on the “patina.”  My goal is to have it mounted in a corner of my deck outside, which means it needs protective paint!  The Amtrak metallic dark gray used on the leading edge of the P-42 frames (Phase V paint schema) seems the most fitting color.  A picture for reference:

 

 http://hebners.net/amtrak/amtGEN42_200_207/amt201.jpg

 

Have not found a P-42 image of the bell, seems from reviewing model train phots, the bell is behind the right side cowling.  If anyone has an image to share, please post back. 

If the bell was a bronze brass casting, than the patina becomes a critical decision, do you polish it out, or let it be.  In scanning eBay for ‘locomotive bell’, one can see the difference and make up their mind which presents better. 

 

Cefinkjr,  you read my mind on the red.  There was some discussion last year on the Trains forum about painted steam bells inside red (could never happen was the post.)  If you look at color pictures in Trains and just Google images, red is for real and a steam tradition of dressing the Iron Horse up.   If anyone knows what color red, please post back, is it boxcar red, caboose red,   or as I call it locomotive red that was used on cap roofs and tender decks (you need to look at painted model railroad steam locomotives to see this color red)?  Assuming the red was flat.  Yunz guys let me know! 

 

Example of red interior paint from eBay:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Giant-Antique-Locomotive-Steam-engine-Train-Bell/321602174185?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D30542%26meid%3Dd38166976ca5461695d58b89a84c6cdd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D251944299746&rt=nc 

[Firelock76]

I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner...

For questions and answers on bells n' such try this website:

www.railroadiana.org

It's mostly about stuff from classic era railroading but who knows what you might find out?