Tugboat Tony So you've answered the question. IT IS NOT A VIABLE FUEL. You tell us that you have all this experience with it and then list a boatload of serious problems that come with it. It is a dumb idea to take a product, waste or otherwise that has a viable market and pretend it is a viable fuel just because you can jump through enough hoops to make it sort of work. tdmidget Biodiesel is a fantasy. The highest percentage of so called "bio diesel allowed is 25 %. "Biodiesel" at the pump is as little as 2%. It is a "Feel good" thing. Just like corn ethanol, it is an energy loser. It takes more energy to produce than it contains. In case you hadn't noticed , there is/was a market for used vegetable and animal fats before the "biodiesel " fad and the result will be higher prices for the items which consumed them, such as soaps and cosmetics. These fantasies are like perpetual motion machines that keep popping up in the minds of fanatics. Thats funny I have been using B99 bio diesel for underground mining applications for a long time. Bio has a very similar power rating and burns much much cleaner. the drawbacks are that it can be very corrosive depending on the oil source, and the glycerin can plug up fuel injector nozzles.
So you've answered the question. IT IS NOT A VIABLE FUEL. You tell us that you have all this experience with it and then list a boatload of serious problems that come with it. It is a dumb idea to take a product, waste or otherwise that has a viable market and pretend it is a viable fuel just because you can jump through enough hoops to make it sort of work.
tdmidget Biodiesel is a fantasy. The highest percentage of so called "bio diesel allowed is 25 %. "Biodiesel" at the pump is as little as 2%. It is a "Feel good" thing. Just like corn ethanol, it is an energy loser. It takes more energy to produce than it contains. In case you hadn't noticed , there is/was a market for used vegetable and animal fats before the "biodiesel " fad and the result will be higher prices for the items which consumed them, such as soaps and cosmetics. These fantasies are like perpetual motion machines that keep popping up in the minds of fanatics.
Biodiesel is a fantasy. The highest percentage of so called "bio diesel allowed is 25 %. "Biodiesel" at the pump is as little as 2%. It is a "Feel good" thing. Just like corn ethanol, it is an energy loser. It takes more energy to produce than it contains. In case you hadn't noticed , there is/was a market for used vegetable and animal fats before the "biodiesel " fad and the result will be higher prices for the items which consumed them, such as soaps and cosmetics.
These fantasies are like perpetual motion machines that keep popping up in the minds of fanatics.
Thats funny I have been using B99 bio diesel for underground mining applications for a long time. Bio has a very similar power rating and burns much much cleaner. the drawbacks are that it can be very corrosive depending on the oil source, and the glycerin can plug up fuel injector nozzles.
DeggestyBack in June, as I was on my way to Seattle from Chicago, I saw many tank cars that were marked as containing inedible animal fat (or something like that). I had never seen such before, and wondered just what it was and where it was going. Could they have been headed for a plant which produces biodiesel?
Most of that stuff will be used for animal feed (disturbing as that might be), withother principal uses for soaps and greases. Only a very little is presently used for biodiesel; Here is a PDF that tells you some of what is needed.
Most biodiesel is made from vegetable feedstock that has the 'right' composition for diesel fuel -- rapeseed oil (AKA one of the base oils for 'canola') being a principal one. There used to be a considerable market for 'waste vegetable oil' conversions for diesel vehicles -- the 'drive free with the smell of french fries wherever you go, and save the environment' -- but several things have conspired to marginalize this, ranging from the need to remove the abrasive particles found from restaurant fry-grill cleaning to the unsuitability of even small amounts of wax or other material to pass modern high-pressure small-volume fuel injectors. Needless to say, there is now a market for that waste oil, and when it is not free the hoops you have to jump through to use it are not as attractive...
Back in June, as I was on my way to Seattle from Chicago, I saw many tank cars that were marked as containing inedible animal fat (or something like that). I had never seen such before, and wondered just what it was and where it was going. Could they have been headed for a plant which produces biodiesel?
Johnny
Here in EU we have about 7% biodiesel in our fuel stations (military grade diesel is exempted).
This seems to cause problems with filters plugged up with a kind of fungi and residues (the fungi seems to thrive on fuel tanks which have humidity inside).
A sample link (in Greek) by a train enginner, includes some photos from fuel filters in a DMU, and shows the gunk plugging the filters (plus some links):
http://mixanikosose.blogspot.gr/2015/09/blog-post_14.html
N.F.
Is there any required tuning or tweaking of the engine settings to burn bio-diesel as compared to regular diesel?
Railroads do not need to pay road tax on their fuel in most states, so they are likely exempt from any requirement. Non-road diesel was once dyed red to help catch scofflaws, but I don't think this process persists.
In Minnesota all Diesel sold at the pumps is mandated to have a minimum of like 2% biodiesel, so Locomotives fueled here may run a little bit unless they are exempt from buying the mixture since they don't go down to the gas station to fuel up.
NS was using 100% biodiesel in locomotives out of their Meridian, Mississippi terminal and it apparently worked quite well. The fuel they were using was made from waste animal fat and grease (think rendered slaughterhouse byproducts). The experiment only ended when the biodiesel plant shut down, for lack of feedstock IIRC. But from what I heard NS was saving quite a bit of money, both on fuel costs and engine maintenance because the biodiesel burned cleaner.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I think just steam, but their steam locomotives burned diesel before, so it is possible.
There have been on-and-off tests for years, with the Trains article being about a more recent NS test. When properly refined and mixed with a usual amount of regular diesel (sort of like ethanol in gasoline) there are no problems, but the challenge is making large enough quantities of it to make it worthwhile.
Didn't the GCRR go to all 'green' fuel, or was that just for their steam power.
IIRC, Herr Diesel originally designed his engine to run on peanut oil...
Chuck
The San Francisco Bay Railroad uses biodiesel to fuel their locomotives. They are a class 3 railroad. Check it out: www.sfbayrail.com
An idea. Let's eat the food and put the useless stuff that comes from the ground in our engines.
There have been experiments through the years to prove that it will work. The big issue is cost, get millions of gallons to power a freight railroad may not be feasable at this point. And with normal diesel fuel available, will it be cost competative?
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Does anyone know if any railroads have tried or are using
bio-diesel? Would there be any negagtives such as excessive
engine wear?
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