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Will we see high speed DMU'S in the US?

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Will we see high speed DMU'S in the US?
Posted by zkr123 on Friday, September 12, 2014 12:30 PM
Will we ever have high speed DMU's like Great Britain's HSTS 125s, Virgin Voyagers, the Danish IC3, or Irelands class 22,000 in the US?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_43_(HST) HST 125

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_221
Virgin Voyagers

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC3
Danish IC3

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_22000_Class
Irish class 22000
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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, September 13, 2014 12:29 AM

No.

Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, September 13, 2014 6:49 AM

Highly unlikely.  DMU's are a rather expensive alternative to a conventional locomotive-and-train with a control cab on the other end.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by NorthWest on Saturday, September 13, 2014 10:32 AM

No, another reason is crash standards, which eliminate the weight savings of a DMU over a locomotive.

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Posted by zkr123 on Saturday, September 13, 2014 5:17 PM
Didn't the FRA create new standards for passenger trains?
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Posted by Buslist on Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:55 PM
HST 125s are not DMUs but locomotive hauled and pushed (toped and tailed) convevtional train sets.
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Posted by zkr123 on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 12:28 PM
Thanks for the correction. I thought they were considered DMUs since they're train sets
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Posted by Buslist on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 8:09 PM
DMUs and EMUs have power distributed along the train, not concentrated in locomotives/power cars. Has nothing to do with being a "train set " or not.
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Posted by Buslist on Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:56 AM
Northwest. I'm a bit puzzled by your comment on crash standards. Certainly if the proposed DMU was made up of individual cars, ala RDCs each cab would need something close to locomotive style crash protection ( although this doesn't seem to have affected commuter EMUs too much, but then they're tier I) and the weight penalty would probably be significant. But if the proposed configuration was like the Vrgin Voyagers with cab cars bracketing non control, but powered intermediate coaches, I would argue that those intermediate cars should not be subject to crashworthyness standards any more significant the the intermediate cars on a locomotive hauled train. What is gained is passenger space in all vehicles on the train. And therein is the rub. At this point FRA does not allow passengers to occupy the lead vehicle on Tier II passenger operations, so at this point a Voyager type train set is a non starter. BUT! Amtrak is looking to an EMU type train set for the Acela II equipment, so they must be hoping for some modification to that ban for Tier III equipment.
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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, September 23, 2014 6:09 PM

Buslist
I'm a bit puzzled by your comment on crash standards. Certainly if the proposed DMU was made up of individual cars, ala RDCs each cab would need something close to locomotive style crash protection ( although this doesn't seem to have affected commuter EMUs too much, but then they're tier I) and the weight penalty would probably be significant.

This was my point. In the past, DMUs have been used for maximum flexibility in North America, and not greater acceleration. I forgot about the advantages of greater powered axles when posting.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:54 AM

DMU's actually used in multiple unit operation have been relatively uncommon in North America.  Most pre-WW2 motor cars (EMC, Brill, McKeen, etc.) were not or could not be equipped for multiple-unit operation and generally operated as single units on branches or division locals.  Many of the RDC's were placed in similar service.  Besides B&M, NH and B&O, few roads operated RDC's in multiple or otherwise made use of their flexibility.

The development of push-pulls for suburban service probably went a long way in eliminating a market for RDC's in that service.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by DS4-4-1000 on Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:32 AM

When the RDCs were new the PRSL used them in a way that was unique in the States.  A train of RDCs would leave Camden bound for the shore.  When the train reached the junction between the Atlantic City line and the line which paralleled the coast the train was split and the front few cars proceeded to Atlantic City.  The remainder of the train would travel down the coast and at each junction one RDC would separate and travel to the end of the branch while the remainder would continue south to the next junction.  The return to Camden would be just the opposite with the train picking up an RDC at each junction until the meet was made with the Atlantic City section.

Just imagine how many partially dead heading engineers this operation took!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:58 AM

An operation not unlike Chicago Aurora & Elgin trains to the Fox Valley.  A train would leave Wells Street Terminal.  On arrival at Wheaton, short-turn cars would be cut off and one part of the train would continue to Aurora while the other part would continue to Elgin.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by 081552 on Thursday, September 25, 2014 8:28 PM

Last weekend I rode Turbostar DMU trains from Stansted Airport outside of London to Norwich. The three car trains can carry about 200 passengers. While not "high speed (100 mph) we stayed on schedule the entire trip. After seeing hundreds of modern DMUs  during visits to Ireland and the UK over the last year, I wonder if the Brits and Irish know something about DMUs that we don't?

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, September 26, 2014 7:35 AM

DS4-4-1000

When the RDCs were new the PRSL used them in a way that was unique in the States.  A train of RDCs would leave Camden bound for the shore.  When the train reached the junction between the Atlantic City line and the line which paralleled the coast the train was split and the front few cars proceeded to Atlantic City.  The remainder of the train would travel down the coast and at each junction one RDC would separate and travel to the end of the branch while the remainder would continue south to the next junction.  The return to Camden would be just the opposite with the train picking up an RDC at each junction until the meet was made with the Atlantic City section.

Just imagine how many partially dead heading engineers this operation took!

Right up until the end in 1980 they did this.  There was one train a day to/from Cape May (one car) and Ocean City (two cars) that they put together in Tuckahoe.  They'd cover ground between Tuckahoe and Winslow Jct as fast at three Budd cars could go - long, flat tangents connected with a few big sweeping curves.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, September 26, 2014 10:48 AM

081552
After seeing hundreds of modern DMUs  during visits to Ireland and the UK over the last year, I wonder if the Brits and Irish know something about DMUs that we don't?

They know that they don't have to meet American buff strength and collision standards, for one thing. 

It does remain to be seen if there's a market for small Tier-4-final-compliant diesel engine powered trains, vs. the IDOT/CSR/AAF model (with locomotives along the lines of the HST125 'plan' fitted with larger engines in the C175 or QSK series, neither of which is likely to fit 'underfloor' without pain, and less-espensive-all-around unpowered cars).  I believe we've looked at this in some of the other discussions on MU power...

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Posted by zkr123 on Friday, September 26, 2014 7:20 PM

Isn't all aboard Florida creating an American HST 125 with the Siemens charger locomotive and single level cars?

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Posted by northamericanexpress on Monday, November 17, 2014 8:44 AM
Yes indeed. Here's a link to All Aboard Florida's press release, http://www.allaboardflorida.com/recent-news/press-announcements/all-aboard-florida-selects.html.
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Posted by northamericanexpress on Monday, November 17, 2014 9:00 AM

In addition to my quick response, please check out this additional link, http://www.allaboardflorida.com/recent-news/press-announcements/all-aboard-florida-selects.html.

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Posted by BastaTim on Friday, November 28, 2014 1:21 PM

The Sprinter in California that goes from Oceanside to Escondido uses DMU's.

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