NS buying BNSF SD60Ms, SD75Ms, and NYSW SD70Ms

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NS buying BNSF SD60Ms, SD75Ms, and NYSW SD70Ms
Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Friday, July 18, 2014 3:38 PM

According to a poster at locophotos.com, NS is purchasing several BNSF SD60Ms and SD75Ms, as well as NYSW SD70Ms.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Friday, July 18, 2014 3:51 PM

Nice to see Susie-Q's SD70M's getting a new lease on life. Was almost ready to give them up for dead since it sounds like they're in dire need of an overhaul and as hard as it is to believe, they're just about 20 years old now and aren't young locomotives anymore. 

I wonder if those former Soo SD60's from CEFX will find their way here. Keep waiting to hear that they're going there or to Canadian National, but they continue to sit to the best of my knowledge. There's no way that they're going to be scrapped like some have claimed. 

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Posted by D.Carleton on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:07 PM

Leo_Ames

Nice to see Susie-Q's SD70M's getting a new lease on life. Was almost ready to give them up for dead since it sounds like they're in dire need of an overhaul and as hard as it is to believe, they're just about 20 years old now and aren't young locomotives anymore. 

I wonder if those former Soo SD60's from CEFX will find their way here. Keep waiting to hear that they're going there or to Canadian National, but they continue to sit to the best of my knowledge. There's no way that they're going to be scrapped like some have claimed. 

Weren't the former SOO SD60s rebuilt in kind by Altoona for CIT?

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:19 PM

Indeed, it appears that at least 5 units were rebuilt last Fall for continued service with their lease fleet. 

Amazing how rumors start. One railfan photographer captions a photo of these stored units stating that a Norfolk Southern employee told him they were to be scrapped and it spread like wildfire across the internet in railfan circles. 

I wouldn't be surprised if any of the non rebuilt units, if they were ever even for sale, follow some of their SD40-2's that previously departed to NS's roster for rebuild fodder just like the purchases that are the subject of this thread. 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:29 PM

To start another debate.  Has NS bought any GEs to be rebuilt and if not why ?  Ease of rebuilding, aging, and so forth ?

 

 

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Friday, July 18, 2014 5:26 PM

Venturing a guess here, I'd say that it's because they're just in the infancy of starting to rebuild GE's where as their EMD programs already are well established.

I would expect if they're pleased with their Dash 8.5 program and current trends continue that they very well might purchase some 2nd hand GE's one of these days if some C40-8's come up for sale at a reasonable price.

The C40-8 and derivatives looks set to be the first GE road locomotive to have a significant 2nd life unlike the U-Boats, Dash 7's, and early Dash 8's that preceded them. 

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Friday, July 18, 2014 5:43 PM

Yeah, even beyond NS, rebuilding EMDs is a long standing industry which EMD has made easier to participate in.

NS has a lot of institutional knowledge and history inside and out into how to do this. I do find it fascinating that their Tier 2 rebuilds don't use the EMD ECO package and in fact their split cooling seems significantly different. I'd love someone with knowledge to do a compare and contrast. 

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Posted by D.Carleton on Friday, July 18, 2014 11:20 PM

Leo_Ames

Amazing how rumors start. One railfan photographer captions a photo of these stored units stating that a Norfolk Southern employee told him they were to be scrapped and it spread like wildfire across the internet in railfan circles. 

I had seen those picture captions (as well as internet discussions) and had a good laugh at the time... not that I would mislead fans or anything like that.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:24 AM

Say, does anyone know what's going on with ol' Susie-Q?  I understand there's been quite a downturn in business for them, and in fact they've been trying to get CSX interested in purchasing the line outright.

Anyone know?

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Posted by NorthWest on Saturday, July 19, 2014 11:59 AM

It will be interesting to see how long GE will keep up parts support for the -8s. They ended it about 2007 for the -7s, which all died rather suddenly. EMD has continued to support parts for almost all models, due to parts commonality.

Good to see these locomotives are finding new homes.

Edit: a quick check of pictures indicates that many of the CEFX SD60s are on the road in lease service, and have been for at least a few months.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, July 19, 2014 12:07 PM

NorthWest

It will be interesting to see how long GE will keep up parts support for the -8s. They ended it about 2007 for the -7s, which all died rather suddenly. EMD has continued to support parts for almost all models, due to parts commonality.

Good to see these locomotives are finding new homes.

The big difference between EMD and GE is the lengths GE will go to protect their part's supply lines. EMD parts can be had from numerous vendors, including GE. If you're looking for GE parts, good luck. True story: I needed a lower half of a traction motor gear case for a Dash 8. At least 100 of those go by me everyday. Try as I might calling around no one had one to spare. Whereas if it were EMD I can walk up to any tree and two or three will fall out when you shake it.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, July 19, 2014 2:20 PM

D.Carleton

NorthWest

It will be interesting to see how long GE will keep up parts support for the -8s. They ended it about 2007 for the -7s, which all died rather suddenly. EMD has continued to support parts for almost all models, due to parts commonality.

The big difference between EMD and GE is the lengths GE will go to protect their part's supply lines. EMD parts can be had from numerous vendors, including GE. If you're looking for GE parts, good luck.

 
So in a nutshell  -------  
Buy GE cheaper up front pay dearly for parts and expect parts to dry up for 20+ year old.
Buy EMD pay more up front but get parts more cheaper and for much longer ?  
Present accounting practices might give the bias to buy GE ?
Would explain NS buying second hand EMD and not GE ?
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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, July 19, 2014 3:22 PM

blue streak 1
 
So in a nutshell  -------  
Buy GE cheaper up front pay dearly for parts and expect parts to dry up for 20+ year old.
Buy EMD pay more up front but get parts more cheaper and for much longer ?  
Present accounting practices might give the bias to buy GE ?
Would explain NS buying second hand EMD and not GE ?
 

In the past, absolutely. Going forward, we shall see. When NS undertook the SD40E rebuld program they put out for bid for the replacement of the EMD 50-series control system. EMD won the bid. A similar process was performed for the SD60E program.
 
One of the problems we are seeing with Dash 8 locomotives is faliure of the ancient on-board computers which, of course, are no longer supported by GE. If NS intends to pursue a Dash 8 rebuild program this will have to be addressed. If a replacement is devised and produced then that should add to the longevity of Dash 8s.

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Sunday, July 20, 2014 2:09 PM

D.Carleton

The big difference between EMD and GE is the lengths GE will go to protect their part's supply lines. EMD parts can be had from numerous vendors, including GE. If you're looking for GE parts, good luck. True story: I needed a lower half of a traction motor gear case for a Dash 8. At least 100 of those go by me everyday. Try as I might calling around no one had one to spare. Whereas if it were EMD I can walk up to any tree and two or three will fall out when you shake it.

Hope you are wearing your hard hat and steel-toed shoes when those gear case covers come raining downBlack Eye

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
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Posted by D.Carleton on Sunday, July 20, 2014 5:19 PM

Paul Milenkovic

D.Carleton

The big difference between EMD and GE is the lengths GE will go to protect their part's supply lines. EMD parts can be had from numerous vendors, including GE. If you're looking for GE parts, good luck. True story: I needed a lower half of a traction motor gear case for a Dash 8. At least 100 of those go by me everyday. Try as I might calling around no one had one to spare. Whereas if it were EMD I can walk up to any tree and two or three will fall out when you shake it.

Hope you are wearing your hard hat and steel-toed shoes when those gear case covers come raining downBlack Eye

Don't be silly. That's what mechanic's helpers are for.

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Posted by EMD#1 on Monday, July 21, 2014 4:50 PM

I'm an engineer for NS and can tell you that we don't want any more Trash-8s! They are the absolute worst engines we have on the roster. I had one earlier today, a former Conrail CW40-8 and it rode worse than Mr Toads wild ride at Disneyland! On GE engines in particulat the truck bolsters wear out creating a lot of play for the large pin that sets inside of the truck frame. When you go down the track at speeds up above 40 mph not in power it causes the unit to slap the rail side to side with excessive lateral movement. To someone that doesn't ride trains for a living it would scare the heck out of you. You would think this engine is about to jump completely off the rails. To us it becomes a safety issue. I have seen these GEs throw a conductor completely out of his seat! Imagine if that person got up to use the restroom and fell and busted his or her head. I for one will be gratefull when these Dash-8s are gone just like the piece of trash Dash-7 and Uboats were before them!

blue streak 1

To start another debate.  Has NS bought any GEs to be rebuilt and if not why ?  Ease of rebuilding, aging, and so forth ?

 

 

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Posted by caldreamer on Monday, July 21, 2014 5:15 PM

EMD#1:

  How do the 9-, sand GEVO's ride?

   

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Monday, July 21, 2014 8:28 PM

Caldreamer,

The Dash9s (the ES's seem to have the same truck) were the among the most, a combination of, predictable and comfortable, engines, I ran over a 42 year career in engine service; others: EMD E's, Alco PA's, Blomberg B trucks on maximum weight, 265000 Lb engines, FM Trainmasters, the Alco S-1 and S-2 truck.

Faultless: the Flexi-Coil SW-1500s.

Pretty darn good: the AAR B on our DL701's and 7300's/4000's.

Predictability.....and comfort?

A locomotive smoothly, tamely moves until, throttle and track mix a witch's brew of ride variants:

Our correspondent said that on a drifting throttle, violent lateral motion happened. YEAH!.....Those trucks, those GE's for years had them.

Rock and Roll.... never met a GM EMD 3axle truck, highlight, emphasize 'til the current truck, that couldn't come close to terrifying me.

Maybe I put them in an uncompromisable mechanical place?

Ran out of time...back later, gotta go out.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Monday, July 21, 2014 10:48 PM

EMD#1

I'm an engineer for NS and can tell you that we don't want any more Trash-8s! They are the absolute worst engines we have on the roster. I had one earlier today, a former Conrail CW40-8 and it rode worse than Mr Toads wild ride at Disneyland! On GE engines in particulat the truck bolsters wear out creating a lot of play for the large pin that sets inside of the truck frame. When you go down the track at speeds up above 40 mph not in power it causes the unit to slap the rail side to side with excessive lateral movement. To someone that doesn't ride trains for a living it would scare the heck out of you. You would think this engine is about to jump completely off the rails. To us it becomes a safety issue. I have seen these GEs throw a conductor completely out of his seat! Imagine if that person got up to use the restroom and fell and busted his or her head. I for one will be gratefull when these Dash-8s are gone just like the piece of trash Dash-7 and Uboats were before them!

So how did they ride when they were new? Just curious since I fix and don't run them. I'd also like to know how the Dash 9s and ES ACs and DCs are "wearing in."

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Monday, July 21, 2014 11:43 PM
Considering how many are being rebuilt...with no indication of a bogie swap, one has to wonder if they are addressing this.
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Posted by EMD#1 on Tuesday, July 22, 2014 3:42 AM

   

The newer Dash-9s and GEVOs ride much better but I have had some lateral movement issues with an older Dash-9 before. Once I was slammed up against the control stand hit the radio and caused it to change the channel. Needless to say we switched it back. It was too bad because the older SD60 didn't have A/C. I hated it for the outbound crew but no one wants anyone to get hurt. By far the worst offenders are the Ex-Cons though. I was told it was because of lack of maintenance. I think it is just a problem with GE units. I have had vertical movements with some SD60s that are wore out like the ex Soo line units someone mentioned earlier but with GEs it is horizontal movement. Have one start going side to side over a bridge real bad and you will want to wet your pants. How I wish I could get someone from upper management to ride one of these Trash-8s when they do that. I'd love to see how long they remain on the roster then!

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Posted by zkr123 on Tuesday, July 22, 2014 4:57 AM
Which routes exactly is NS planning on using these newly acquired locomotives?
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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:00 PM

Way back when, we tested the ride quality of an SD60 (HTC with Timkens)  C39-8 and SD40-2 (with Flexicoil trucks and Hyatts) against each other.  The trucks were in good shape on all - a year or two old at most.

The ride quality was similar between all three.  The Flexicoil was a bit better laterally, but a bit more bouncy vertically.  The C39-8 was the worst by a hair, overall.  Test was over CR's Chicago Line between Selkirk and Collinwood.

There is no reason an older Dash 8 should have a worse ride than a new one unless the trucks are overdue an overhaul.  Maybe NS is stretching the truck overhaul intervals out too far.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Bryan Jones on Wednesday, July 23, 2014 3:57 AM

zkr123
Which routes exactly is NS planning on using these newly acquired locomotives?

Anywhere and everywhere on the NS system.

Bryan Jones

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Posted by mackb4 on Sunday, July 27, 2014 6:49 AM

 I just wish they'd quit buying them,I'm tired of running them Grumpy

Collin ,operator of the " Eastern Kentucky & Ohio R.R."

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Posted by LensCapOn on Sunday, July 27, 2014 10:01 AM

mackb4

 I just wish they'd quit buying them,I'm tired of running them Grumpy

Please tell us more!

*There has to be some back story here. Did I miss it?  Confused

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