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What's the story behind the Empress of Agincourt?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Guelph, Ontario
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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 11, 2014 3:35 PM

Great info, thank you. I'm only about 90 minutes away from Saint Thomas; I must pay the old girl a visit. It's been years since I've been to the St. Thomas Railway Museum. What a fine looking locomotive, I heard it was also called the "Duke of Saint Luke" at one time. Looks like an RS-18 on steroids. 

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Friday, July 11, 2014 2:02 PM

Thank You!

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 11, 2014 7:50 AM

Thank you.. that's what I was looking for. I had assumed CP was looking for more horsepower since they were road testing this powerful locomotive along with a few from the other builders in the late 50s. . Like you've stated, they probably found that 2400 hp in one engine was excessive for the tonnages of the day. 

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, July 10, 2014 10:15 PM

John has pretty much said it all. It essentially a MLW-styled RSD-15, in the way that they had restyled earlier locomotives.

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Posted by cx500 on Thursday, July 10, 2014 9:20 PM

MLW's RSD-17 was built about 1957 as a demonstrator and spent time on CNR, CPR and PGE, painted in each case for the specific railway.  It was probably a competitive response to the FM/CLC H-24-66, who built one each for CN and CP.  In the end, the Canadian railways found 2400hp in one unit an awkward fit for most assignments of that era.  PGE bought neither, and the CN received only its one H-24-66.  CPR had bought an additional 20 H-24-66s but struggled to find appropriate assignments for that many.  A pair of 1600/1800hp units was the perfect match for their typical train sizes developed in the late steam era.  The 4-axle units also were better suited for much of the track structure across the systems.

Its demonstration period ended without producing much interest from the railways and the RSD-17 returned to MLW.  It was a year or two later before it was eventually sold to CPR, probably at a bargain price the ever thrifty CPR found hard to ignore.

As an oddball unit it of course attracted a lot of attention from the railfans, and that no doubt helps to explain why it was preserved (in St.Thomas, Ontario).  But one might question the need to preserve an oddball unit that was a commercial flop for its manufacturer.  Fortunately examples of more typical and deserving locomotives have been saved in the various Canadian museums.

I will also point out that CP's one and only purchase of Baldwins was 10 years earlier, for switchers and small 1000hp road switchers in 1948.  The majority of the CLC/FM fleet was in that sweet horsepower spot of 1600hp, and they continued in service when CPR first started disposing of their H-24-66 fleet.  I'm not sure where you got the idea that CPR was looking for more horsepower in 1959.

John

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  • From: Guelph, Ontario
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What's the story behind the Empress of Agincourt?
Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, July 10, 2014 7:57 PM

I've had the pleasure of seeing this locomotive (Canada's one and only RSD17) in its final years,when CP had consigned all of its MLWs to Eastern Canada. At the time of its purchase in 1959 MLW had redeemed itself in the eyes of CP (thanks to the 251 engine), yet only one of these was built. Why? At that time CP was purchasing Baldwins and FM's for the West... they were obviously looking for more horsepower and tractive effort. And the RSD17 was basically nothing more than a bulked up RS18, a locomotive that CP was happy with. 

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