SD60MAC9500 McKey Would anyone here already have pictures of the GE ES44AC Tier 4 with a new kind of radiator unit sitting on top of the nose? For tier 4. The new designation's now; ET44AC, ET44C4.
McKey Would anyone here already have pictures of the GE ES44AC Tier 4 with a new kind of radiator unit sitting on top of the nose?
Would anyone here already have pictures of the GE ES44AC Tier 4 with a new kind of radiator unit sitting on top of the nose?
For tier 4. The new designation's now; ET44AC, ET44C4.
On CSX, with the 'Heavy' package they are ET44AH
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Edit: Strike this post, I changed my mind after finding my answer.
QNSL SD70ACes don't have the cab lowered. The units have a lower frame by about 3+"s than a standard SD70Ace. Which gives the entire locomotive a height of roughly 15' 9"s. A standard SD70Ace height is about 16' 1".
M636CI believe the SD70 ACe LCi radiators were mounted slightly lower than in the standard units to avoid damage in the dumper but it was too costly to redesign the cab.
BHP has some units intended for BNSF. I forget why they didn't make it there. This picture compares their radiators, the low clearance unit is clearly lower.
I think I remember in a recent Trains article that the QNS&L SD70ACes have a cab lower than standard SD70ACes. Can anyone confirm?
M636CThe Rio Tinto ES44 DCi units have a much larger radiator, the size of a domestic AC 6000 radiator with twin fans but it fits within the clearances and does not need to be angled to fit. These units retain the air to air intercooler of course, so don't need as big a radiator as the 2015, of course. The combination is bigger and the ES44 DCi units have a longer frame.
These ride on AC6000CW frames, and with their radiators, look a lot like AC60CWs!
Front
Back
GDRMCo That's all well and good but the SD80ACes they have don't have the /lc mods or any sort of tight clearance mods so I'm more inclined to guess the ES58s were just ordered with the cab for no real reason other than GE likely offering it (BHPBs AC6000s also have this cab style with only dumper clearances being the cause (even tho that has been proven to not be a problem....)). The fact the radiator designs are so similar leads me to believe GE took what it's already got, a 6000hp capable radiator and used it to help lower emissions on their 4400hp product.
That's all well and good but the SD80ACes they have don't have the /lc mods or any sort of tight clearance mods so I'm more inclined to guess the ES58s were just ordered with the cab for no real reason other than GE likely offering it (BHPBs AC6000s also have this cab style with only dumper clearances being the cause (even tho that has been proven to not be a problem....)).
The fact the radiator designs are so similar leads me to believe GE took what it's already got, a 6000hp capable radiator and used it to help lower emissions on their 4400hp product.
The BHP Billiton AC 6000s (ordered when the company name was still BHP) were built to clear the original Nelson Point No 1 Dumper which was purchased from the Oroville Dam Constructors. This dated back to about 1961, and was used with the very first production U25C locomotives. BHP obtained 150 gondola cars from ODC which formed the basis for all future vehicles, at least as far as dimensions were concerned.
After the first SD70 ACe units were obtained, that dumper, more than 40 years old was completely replaced with a new dumper without the clearance limitations. I can assure you that an SD70 ACe was damaged by being run cab trailing through the old dumper. Apparently the crew in the Dash8 ahead heard the handrails being ripped off the inverter boxes and stopped before the cab roof came off. They had already cancelled an ATP emergency stop warning that the consist wouldn't fit.
I believe the SD70 ACe LCi radiators were mounted slightly lower than in the standard units to avoid damage in the dumper but it was too costly to redesign the cab.
The Australian built Dash 8s and the AC6000s are much lower in height than US domestic units, between 9 to 12 inches lower. The AC 6000 cab is significantly lower as well as having angled sides. If the ES58 ACi units have the same cab, their hoods are significantly lower than standard ES 44 domestic units. This can be seen in the dynamic brake "cab" being closer in height to the engine "cab". So there may be clearance restrictions requiring the angled radiator in Brazil.
The Rio Tinto ES44 DCi units have a much larger radiator, the size of a domestic AC 6000 radiator with twin fans but it fits within the clearances and does not need to be angled to fit. These units retain the air to air intercooler of course, so don't need as big a radiator as the 2015, of course. The combination is bigger and the ES44 DCi units have a longer frame.
M636C
It is all right. Sorry to be grouchy. My apologies to both M636C and GDRMco.
NorthWest M636C, I know the radiators are not original. They were rebuilt after US service, iirc. And yes, there are more modifications. GDRMco, that locomotive was built for a South American railroad...
M636C,
I know the radiators are not original. They were rebuilt after US service, iirc. And yes, there are more modifications. GDRMco, that locomotive was built for a South American railroad...
My apologies. My comment was aimed at McKey's post which was a response to yours.
I have edited my reply to remove the quote of your post to remove any suggestion that my post commented on your post.
The SD80ACes are EMDs, and I think the curved cab is standard for Export GEs. My point was that GE might have engineered this for tight clearances if someone other than Vale ordered it, to save on future costs.
That said, I'm not here to argue, so this will likely be my last post on this topic.
GDRMCoThe fact the radiator designs are so similar leads me to believe GE took what it's already got, a 6000hp capable radiator and used it to help lower emissions on their 4400hp product.
Agreed.
ML
In this instance, no, the radiator isn't for tunnels. But notice it has GE's export wide cab, with slightly in-sloping sides. This leads me to believe that GE wanted to make a locomotive that would also fit close clearances, without needing to reengineer it, if more are ordered for, say, other lines with clearance problems.
Yes I know the ES58ACi was built for Vale's EFC line but that line doesn't have clearance issues like the rest of Brazils network (being the EFC line is broad gauge and built quite recently with USDM clearances in mind).
So no, that radiator on the ES58ACi isn't designed to fit tight tunnels.....
Maybe they've already designed a similar radiator?.....
McKey This is highly interesting find! Thank you! This would mean they actually took into use something they had found working well previously? If I interpret it right, the high mountain thin air needs some more cooling capacity, despite the often colder air than you would find on lower altitudes.
This is highly interesting find! Thank you! This would mean they actually took into use something they had found working well previously?
If I interpret it right, the high mountain thin air needs some more cooling capacity, despite the often colder air than you would find on lower altitudes.
No. The wide radiator cores originally fitted to C30-7 units would not fit through the South American tunnels. By replacing these radiator cores with two cores with the same capacity but placed at an angle to reduce the width near the top of the units, the locomotives could fit through smaller tunnels. In some cases, the locomotive cab roof was altered to improve clearance as well. In the FCCA example shown, the cab window is at the start of the roof curve but a standard C30-7 cab roof is flatter and there is a (narrow) flat side panel above the cab window. They did a lot more than repaint that locomotive.
But GE might have observed the modification and thought "we can do that when we need a bigger radiator..."
I do. I also care how my envoronment looks like and how things at my working place and home are designed. But I do not care what my car looks like, as long as it is aerodynamic.
GDRMCo Aesthetics don't haul freight so who cares how it looks?
Aesthetics don't haul freight so who cares how it looks?
Here is another European view point: this picture was taken from Innotrans 2012 (the largest railroad fair in the World). If you look at the people's faces observing the totally hideous looking American contraption, you may reralize what I'm talking about. So this is European viewpoint: if a manufacturer can't even do design work properly, how would they be able to manufacture something that actually works...?
Which is not to say that the ES44ACTIER4 would look bad at all from the aesthetic viewpoint of mine. Just that almost all my friends say _YAK_ when they see an American designed loco ;) The designs are simply not convincing for many of us.
NorthWest The new radiators kind of look like the C30-7 mods running in South America. I hope they shrink the hump down a bit, we don't need another C39-8 camelback!
The new radiators kind of look like the C30-7 mods running in South America.
I hope they shrink the hump down a bit, we don't need another C39-8 camelback!
The interesting thing is that GE have abandoned the air to air intercooler that was the main feature of the ES44, both AC and DC. It has been replaced by a much larger radiator which has been divided into two angled cores to fit within the standard clearance diagram. The length of the radiator and the angled air intakes under it would suggest that, like the AC6000 it has two radiator cooling fans compared to the single fan on a conventional ES44.
The raised hood between the engine air intake and radiator houses exhaust gas recirculation equipment and associated cooling, much as is in the much larger hump on SD59M-2 UP 9900.... In earlier tier 4 GE prototypes, this area contained selective catalytic reduction equipment and urea injection equipment.
Check this weblink for a few pictures.
http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/general-electric-tier-4-es44ac
Regards,
Swafford
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