Why did Union Pacific retire many of it's SD40T-2's. Other than the cooling system, they are internally similar to hundreds of SD40-2's and Union Pacific is keeping many of those.
Combination of somewhat poorer condition of the former SP locomotives and the fact that all surviving SD40-2s will be going through an upgrade program. The UP wanted to have all the upgrades exactly standardized, and the T-2 would have required modifications. With the most important part of the upgrade being to meet the new Tier 0+ emissions standards, a different radiator with higher capacity would require the recalibration of the various settings. That wasn't worthwhile for a small portion of the fleet when they had more than enough potential candidates among the standard SD40-2s.
Thanks for the answer, it makes sense.
Most of retired DRGW and SP SD40T-2 are coming to Brazil. Many of them are being rebuilt to BB40T-2 and BB40T-3 by FCA, as we see here
bb40 t3 8110 bb36 714 ex?context=user
bb40 t3 8107 na manobra na no 5?context=user
I didn't think UP's SD40-2 rebuild program included new radiators. I'm pretty sure they're just getting the 1033 part and computers.
Well, it's more than that, but in terms of things related to the Tunnel motors.
Also, I thought the radiator was the same, just flipped upside down?
It's not like UP isn't shedding its own SD40-2s too. I think the issue was the condition the units were in more than anything. SP ran em hard and really didn't by 60 series and Dash9/AC4400s in the same numbers as others in the early 90s.
I was a former conductor for Union pacific in the early 2000's when many of the SD40T-2's were being removed and also a locomotive mechanic for another company years after I left the UP. The SD40T-2's that Union pacific owned were all from the Southern pacific and D&RGW. These locomotives were coming from railroads that did the bare minimum to keep them running. To say the SD40T-2's were used,abused,and neglected is a under statement. When the UP took control over these locomotives many of the employees and mechanics considered them unreliable junk that wasn't worth repairing.
Although I am a fan of the SP and the D&RGW I can remember many times seeing a SP SD40T-2 or SP SD45 on my train and thinking "well there is a 50/50 chance those locomotives will get to where we need to go still running". Indeed many times we would be going up a steep hill and in my mirror I would see those old SD40T-2's belching huge clouds of white smoke and shutting down dead because they broke down along the way. Mechanics would repair them only to have them back in the shop a few weeks later for something else. Eventually the mechanics would find reasons to put them out permanently (such as writing them up for crankshaft problems or other expensive repairs) to save them the headaches.
I can tell you as a former mechanic who used to work on SP locomotives those older locomotives were as bad as it got for a mechanic. Everything was rusted,worn out,beat up,neglected,and dirty. You would spend weeks replacing cylinders then you would go to start it and the battery would be bad. You would replace the battery and start it up and you would have some problem with the generator. You would replace the generator and then it would have trouble keeping a idle.
One other problem,and probably the one thing more than others that retired those older locomotives is the newer emission standards. If you took a engine out of a locomotive,it has to be rebuilt to the tier 3 emission standards. I can't remember what all must be replaced but it cost a considerable amount of money and I believe you have to have all new injectors a different camshaft and new power packs. If a older locomotive broke a crankshaft or threw a rod where it damaged a crankshaft then it would likely be sold. If the motor needed a overhaul it would likely be sold. The few survivors who did get overhauls and new paint probably had a good record of reliability and dependability.
The reason many SD40-2's linger on is because the Union pacific already owned many SD40-2's and did a good job keeping them running and taking good care of them. You rarely if ever see any SP SD40's,SD45's,and others because they did not take good care of them when they had them. The ended up in the scrap heap with the SD40T-2's for the same reasons.
The SD40T-2's were wonderful locomotives when they were running right. They were very powerful and loaded up so fast you could use them switching cars in a yard. It's unfortunate the SP and D&RGW neglected them as bad as they did. Although many mechanics hated them there was mechanics like myself that loved them and tried to keep them running for as long as we could.
The SP SD45T-2's have fared well after UP.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Maybe one of these days a tunnel motor will get the 710ECO rebuild, though the only class 1 with 710ECO rebuilt GP/SD 40-series EMDs so far is KCS. No rebuilt ECO tunnel motors so far, though KCS has former Mexican SDP40 ECO rebuilds.
Lyon_Wonder Maybe one of these days a tunnel motor will get the 710ECO rebuild, though the only class 1 with 710ECO rebuilt GP/SD 40-series EMDs so far is KCS. No rebuilt ECO tunnel motors so far, though KCS has former Mexican SDP40 ECO rebuilds.
UP has some SD32ECO's (the 9900 series) rebuilt from SD60M's. UP classifies them as SD59MX.
dupe
Yeah, this isn't true. UP has the SD59M-2s EMD calls them SD32ECOs.
YoHo1975 Yeah, this isn't true. UP has the SD59M-2s EMD calls them SD32ECOs.
Ahh, but he did write 40 series, and a SD60 is not a 40-series locomotive.
True enough, I stand corrected.
Which returns to my original point which was that they aren't changing radiators on the UP 40 rebuilds, so there's no cooling reason not to use the Ts.
Interesting that for CSX's rebuild program, they grabbed the rattiest SD40s they had to rebuild first.
Upgrading; would this be the reason there was a mile long string of 40's, 40-2's, 50's, and various other UP engines sitting in what seemed like a dead line in the Nampa Idaho yard last summer/fall?
I have pictures of the line of engines, I'll have to upload them though. I checked Bing and it's either not current enough (no line of engines), or they've all been moved and Bing is too current.
Thomas 9011 The SD40T-2's were wonderful locomotives when they were running right. They were very powerful and loaded up so fast you could use them switching cars in a yard. It's unfortunate the SP and D&RGW neglected them as bad as they did. Although many mechanics hated them there was mechanics like myself that loved them and tried to keep them running for as long as we could.
I realize I'm just a lowly rail fan but I've read over and over when the D&RGW bought the SP, the folks in D&RGW territory tried to send back SP diesels as often as possible because they were so poorly maintained and unreliable. OTOH, Rio Grande diesels were uniformly praised for being well maintained, at least during the period the Rio Grande had any kind of control over their own equipment. Perhaps this changed after integration of the two systems in the early 90's?
As a mechanic didn't you see any difference in D&RGW diesels vs SP diesels? I think most readers and followers of the SP new their diesels were beat to crap by the late 1980's but I've read so many places the D&RGW maintained their equipment so well it often found good secondary careers or was in great shape to be rebuilt.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Over the years, I've run both ex-SP and ex-DRGW SD40T-2's and would have to agree with the previous assessment. SP units, even their newest GE's, were absolute pieces of crap when maintained by SP personnel. By the time the UP got them (and heaven knows how wonderful Old Yeller's engines can be), they were absolutely groty (how do you spell that, anyway?) both inside and out. I've always liked getting an ex-DRGW unit because it was kept to higher standards. It's sort of scary knowing that these units are being retired when I can remember when they were new. Of course, everytime I pass UP #1488, one of the units assigned to CPT/California Avenue coachyard and see it in its current faded glory, I can remember when it was all shiny from a recent paint job. I've been doing this for a few years and still have a few to go.
No I didn't see much difference in the way either railroad maintained them. Locomotives from both railroads looked like they were worn out to the point of collapsing into a big pile of metal. Of course you had some real nice winners here and there with good paint and clean inside and out. You also had loyal mechanics from the former SP and D&RGW railroads still working the same shops and locomotives they were working on before the merger. If you went to Denver you would find mechanics putting brand new marker lights,and pyle lights in their old D&RGW locomotives from their stock of parts trying to keep their old locomotives from getting sidelined and scrapped. In Sacramento mechanics would keep those old rust bucket SD45's running even though they could have written them off years ago.
I honestly don't think the mechanics from the other railroads neglected the SD40T-2's or wanted to stop working on them. I think it was a combination of things that made keeping them in good order hard to do. SP and D&RGW ran the SD40T-2's primary on steep grades with lots of tunnels. This would clog air filters to the engine in no time and turn everything else filthy dirty. The frequent washing and scrubbing took its toll on the paint and the metal. The heavy grades and slow speeds was hard on everything. If any locomotives took a beating on the rail system in America the SD40T-2's would be at the top of the list.
When Union pacific took over they took control of the SD40T-2 fleet they had a fleet of locomotives that were if anything used and abused and desperately needed a paint job. To complicate things FRA rules stated that all the lights had to be in working condition and operational. Those old Pyle lights on the front of the D&RGW and SP locomotives had to be operational along with the marker lights. Since parts were hard to find for those old lights,Union pacific had to remove the Pyle lights and weld metal plates where they used to be. It was also common practice for UP to remove marker lights and weld metal plates where they were. Not too big of a deal but still a pain when you are talking hundreds of locomotives that are already pretty worn out and over 20 years old.
Mechanically they are not much different than any other EMD locomotive which is why they have lasted as long as they did. The SD40-2 was built on the SD40T-2 frame and that is why you have the long platforms on either end. Some SD40T-2's did have the 20 cylinder engines but were replaced by 16 cylinder engines sooner or later.
Although locomotives can be rebuilt over and over,each rebuild seems to take more money,more work,and more energy to keep them going. Eventually they get to the point where nearly everything has to be replaced or rebuilt. 30 years seems to be the breaking point for major railroads to keep locomotives around. Both the SD40T-2's and SD40-2's have passed this point and only the cream of the crop will still be seen on the UP system.
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