UP #2489 - 3200hp 710ECO

[fredswain]

They are buying them for Texas mostly because Texas was willing to contribute a considerable amount of money to the railroads for their purchase. Why refuse free money to buy something efficient? That's why so many came here. There are also lots of Gensets parked in yards here being unused as a result. They actually just sit in wait for one to go down so they can cycle them through while repairs are being made to the ones that broke down. Those engines are currently about 60% reliable here and only get used at or near yards that have maintenance facilities or work fairly closeby. BNSF is a little bit more brave with theirs as I've seen them well away from yards and they'll run them as the lone engine sometimes. UP doesn't use any Gensets in Lloyd Yard about 20 miles north of Houston as there is no service center there. About 6 months ago the UP's head for this division came and spoke to our model railroad club and was asked about those engines. They still consider them testbeds that are still having the bugs worked out but they actually do like the concept and have high hopes for them.

I assure you our air is nowhere near the pollution level of Los Angeles.

[YoHo1975]

Well, BNSF and UP aren't complaining about the lower fuel consumption either. Having lived in Southern California, I can say that those directives are needed. The air quality issues go far beyond Carbon Dioxide emissions. Just as LA's did. Smog's negative effects aren't in question at all.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Texas isn't exactly going green of its own accord.  The Houston area is under an EPA directive dating back to 2000 to improve its air quality (it's on a par with the Los Angeles area).  This explains why UP and BNSF (and some shortlines) are actively buying gensets and other low-emission locomotives.  I'm not sure if the Dallas-Fort Worth area is under a similar directive but the assignment of gensets to that area and the San Antonio area may be in anticipation of such an occurence.

[YoHo1975]

How is a corporate mission statement conceived during a Republican administration for one of the few truly global in every sense of the word companies going to change "if" there is a political change in the US? How does dropping Ecomagination as a concept help GE sell it's products around the world? The U.S. is just one market of many for GE. As for the struggles to reproduce the successes of Jack Welch. I don't recall Jack Welch having to deal with the entire airline industry imploding along with 2 rather large buildings in Manhattan. 9/11 had a direct and significant impact(no pun intended) on GE's bottom line. And I'm pretty sure Jack Welch didn't have to deal with the worst GLOBAL financial crisis since the Great Depression. General Electric is having the same problems that the rest of the world is dealing with the current economy. All of which is off topic. To get on topic, no political change is going to change the trend upward in the price of fuel. A price, that at least for unleaded at the pump is at least double if not more what it was when the Dash 9 line came out. The Railroads are always going to value fuel efficiency. It goes right to their bottom line and so ideas like the ECO, the GEVO, and Hybrids will move forward. Heck, I've been surprised that the Hybrid took so long. Dynamic brakes basically waste energy by turning the engine into the world's biggest toaster. Recovering that will always be of value. And of course that doesn't touch on the needs of the export market, State's like California and Texas writing their own environmental laws and on and on and on.

[GP40-2]

YoHo1975

...to suggest that it is nothing more than a marketing stance is pretty ignorant.

Actually, it is pretty realistic. When you have been in this business as long as I have, you have seen and heard every corporate "mission statement" du jour. They also seem to change just as fast depending on what direction the political winds are blowing. Corporate mission statements are like ugly neck ties; If you keep them long enough they always seem to come back into style. LOL.

YoHo1975

...It also helps that it came on the heels of new GE management. 

It goes without saying that the new management seems to be having an awful hard time matching the performance of the previous management.

[YoHo1975]

 GE's Ecomagination campaign predates the current political climate by quite a number of years and represents a complete reversal of GE environmental attitude from their previous position as King of the Superfund site.

 

While they are of course out to turn a profit, to suggest that it is nothing more than a marketing stance is pretty ignorant. It involved a major reorg of the company. One doesn't do that on a marketing whim. It also helps that it came on the heels of new GE management. 

[GP40-2]

YoHo1975

Money isn't everything.

Yes it is to GE. They are in business to make money.

YoHo1975

And of course, given how critical Ecomagination is to GE's corporate strategy...

"Ecomagination" is a GE Marketing Department invention. They will use it in their marketing until (1) the senior executives, for no reason what so ever, decide it is time for another slogan or (2) the mid-term elections of 2010, after which most of this push for "green technology" will be placed on the back burner.

[YoHo1975]

Money isn't everything. And of course, given how critical Ecomagination is to GE's corporate strategy, I'd say UP matters quite a bit. Not even GE can ignore a Fortune 500 company with the largest locomotive fleet in the country. Of course, My comment was clearly factitious and didn't require any sort of meaningful response. A fact I thought was obvious. I find it unlikely that there was any fist waving and posturing from anyone when UP made it's naming decisions, but it's fun to think there was.

[GP40-2]

YoHo1975

...Personally, I like their attitude. Especially as it relates to GE. GE needs to be punished for the amazingly dumb name...

LOL. Punished? By Who? The Union Pacific? GE is worth a lot more money than all the Class 1s put together. You would be lucky if anyone who works for GE outside Eire, PA has even heard of, or care about the Union Pacific.

[carnej1]

YoHo1975

 Is EMD calling them SD59M-2s or is Union Pacific calling them that.

 

GE makes the ES44AC. UP doesn't have a single unit on their roster called an ES44AC. They have C45ACCTEs. 

This illustrates that Union Pacific couldn't give a blown Turbo what the manufacturers call their units, they will rename them if they want to. And so if UP wants to call them SD59M-2s they darn well will and the boys at Electro Motive can like it.

In this case, SD59 makes some sense as its HP rating is the same as the F59PHI at 3150(3200) HP out of a V12 710.

Personally, I like their attitude. Especially as it relates to GE. GE needs to be punished for the amazingly dumb name  Dash 9-44CW. Really? C44-9 made too much sense huh?

 In the first generation and early second generation diesel era it was more common for Class 1 RR's to identify locomotive models by a class name rather than the builders model name.

 For instance, Penn Central identified it's EMD GP-40 fleet as EF30 units (Electromotive Freight 30(00 HP))....

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

UP has its reasons for a model system that is often at variance with the model designations used by the builders, primarily to indicate the presence or absence of certain features.  That being said, the UP system is quite different than model systems used by CN, PRR/PC, MILW, SP and others in the past.

[YoHo1975]

 Is EMD calling them SD59M-2s or is Union Pacific calling them that.

 

GE makes the ES44AC. UP doesn't have a single unit on their roster called an ES44AC. They have C45ACCTEs. 

This illustrates that Union Pacific couldn't give a blown Turbo what the manufacturers call their units, they will rename them if they want to. And so if UP wants to call them SD59M-2s they darn well will and the boys at Electro Motive can like it.

In this case, SD59 makes some sense as its HP rating is the same as the F59PHI at 3150(3200) HP out of a V12 710.

Personally, I like their attitude. Especially as it relates to GE. GE needs to be punished for the amazingly dumb name  Dash 9-44CW. Really? C44-9 made too much sense huh?

[Leo_Ames]

Looks like they're going to be called SD59M-2s unlike past 12 cylinder models that were designated SD32ECO regardless of the platform used as a basis for the rebuild.

So I was incorrect as well, my apologies.

[carnej1]

fecsd40-2

I'm sure that if the customers request it, that EMD would be glad to build a 12-cylinder SD69ACe or SD69M-2, instead of just rebuilding SD60/60M locos.  GE could also offer an 8-cylinder ES30AC or DC for those who want a new unit without all the horsepower of the ES44 or SD70. 

There are sound operational/fuel consumption reasons why all of the North american railroads prefer 4350-4400 HP engines in their AC drive road units. The lower HP locomotives are meant for switching and secondary service and it is just not economical to pay the added cost for AC traction systems in those units. EMD did build 2 AC drive F69PH protorypes but found no takers either for passenger service or in a potential freight unit..

[fecsd40-2]

I'm sure that if the customers request it, that EMD would be glad to build a 12-cylinder SD69ACe or SD69M-2, instead of just rebuilding SD60/60M locos.  GE could also offer an 8-cylinder ES30AC or DC for those who want a new unit without all the horsepower of the ES44 or SD70. 

[Tugboat Tony]

I'd like to get one out here to try, Sure seems like a much better idea than the gen-sets. I wonder if they put a decent job into fixing the cabs on the dang thing.  maybe they fixed the trucks so they don't buck as bad either. I can't wait to see them in action

[Leo_Ames]

 Thanks for the picture, that's the first I've seen of these SD60M rebuilds.

 It's actually desginated a SD32ECO. 

The 2,150hp 8 cylinder CC model is called a SD22ECO, the 2,150hp 8 cylinder BB model is called a GP22ECO, and the 3,150hp 12 cylinder CC model (Which this one is) is classified as a SD32ECO.

 Not sure where you got SD59ACe from (It doesn't even have AC traction motors[And you've since changed it after my post]) or SD59ECO (We haven't seen any GP8ECO's (Rebuilt GP9 which they've done 1 or 2 of for demonstration purposes), SD39ECO's (Rebuilt SD40/SD40-2's), or GP39ECO's models (Rebuilt GP40/GP40-2 models) for previous units that have gone through this rebuild program, so there's isn't even any precedence for dropping the number designation down 1 from the original model designations).

 They're all either a SD22ECO, GP22ECO, or SD32ECO, depending on the engine size and number of axles. The original model designation for the locomotive being used as a base for the rebuild (Such as the SDP40's KCS has ran through the ECO program) don't influence the model designation of the rebuild.

[Lyon_Wonder]

Someone spotted UP #2489 in London, Ontario, a SD60M that has been rebuilt with a 12-710ECO.  I guess it’s technically now a SD59DCe or SD59ECO.  With the new radiators this former SD60M almost looks like one of UP’s flared SD70Ms.  The flared radiators resemble the radiators on post-2000 Tier-1 SD70Ms and SD70MACs.  I assume that other 60-series features like the trucks, fuel-tank, cab nose are still intact that distinguish this SD60M rebuild from a flared SD70M.  

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1991794