Motive power service life

[Kootenay Central]

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[Tugboat Tony]

Sorry to dig up old stuff, but an engine typically gets overhauled or the engine changed in about 7 years/750,000 miles on a GE and 9-10 years/1,000,000 miles on an EMD.  The engine frame itself, will usually last for 2-3 overhauls before it is worn out; barring any catastraophic (sp?) failures. A crankshaft and gear train will usually last through 1 overhaul before they are shot.  Thats not to say there aren't power assembly (s) that may get changed in between then.  Long term leases typically last 15-20 years with tax life usually being 15 year deprecaition schedules.  I'm not sure how this will change when the new C45AC's and SD70 ACE's start to come due. With there being so much more wiring and electronics i'm going to bet the rebuilding of locomotives will a lost art just due to the huge cost.  The locomotive as a whole can usually be frame strip level rebuilt 2-3 times before its shot.  but as stated earlier unless its a new unit frame damage units are typically scrapped.

[tomikawaTT]

The final death warrant for any unit is fatigue cracks in the frame.  Absent that, a diesel locomotive is like the mythical Irishman's hammer - a century old, with only two new heads and five new handles.  As long as someone is willing to put up the $$$, new (factory reconditioned) traction motors, new computers, appropriately 'green' prime movers and massive banks of batteries can be installed.  The result may not have much resemblance to the original, but it will be able to do the same job.

Chuck

[oltmannd]

blue streak 1

would the number of horse power hours be meaniful for the prime mover? The number of miles for the trucks and traction motors ( with number of over load hours) ? Type of track for trucks and frames?  Operating temperatures and contamination (sand, grit, snow)? Probably a number of  other items that you will list? Preventative maintenance performed  as scheduled?

Yes. Gallons of fuel consumed might even be better that HP-hrs since it picks up idle wear and tear. But this stuff is kinda hard to keep track of. In practice, you know how past usage works out time-wise and you start taking a look at things when you think time's getting close. From those inspections, you get an idea of what's going to need overhaul when and you plan accordingly. You take units for overhaul as they are shopped for other reasons based on an inspection at that time and the need to feed the overhaul program with candidate locomotives.

[blue streak 1]

would the number of horse power hours be meaniful for the prime mover? The number of miles for the trucks and traction motors ( with number of over load hours) ? Type of track for trucks and frames?  Operating temperatures and contamination (sand, grit, snow)? Probably a number of  other items that you will list? Preventative maintenance performed  as scheduled?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The MEC U25B's (225-238) were ex-Rock Island (same numbers).

[carnej1]

MILW-RODR

I was reffering to everything, but you pretty much answered all my questions. As mentioned the total rebuilds by SF to make GP7u's and CF7's came to mind, I honestly forgot that traction motors and prime movers and such need attention too. I was mainly asking to help form better idea's and concepts for my model railroading hobby, which would be set way before the time of the 60 series. But I'm also an attempted non-conformist so I would be less likely to pick the EMD units because "everyone had them" so to speak. Thanks for the info.

Would it also be realistic for a RR to just sell off it's engine at the end of a lease? I ask because on of my favotire engines is the GE U25B and they would be coming up at the end of 15-20 year leases around the time of my modeling era.

 There were some regional and shortline railroads that rostered second hand U25B's, Guilford Transportation for one...IIRC, their U25Bs were ex-Conrail.

[oltmannd]

MJChittick

At the end of a lease, the locomotive returns to the owner; not the railroad.  Therefore, it would be up to the leasor (bank or financial company) to determine what to do with it.

Sometimes the leases have a fixed buyout price at lease end. Often, it is in the best interest for the lessee and lessor to do a deal at the lease end. The locomotive is already configured for the RR and is therefore more valuable to them. Also, it's less work for the lessor, not having to figure out the logistics of a new owner.

[MJChittick]

MILW-RODR

Would it also be realistic for a RR to just sell off it's engine at the end of a lease? I ask because on of my favotire engines is the GE U25B and they would be coming up at the end of 15-20 year leases around the time of my modeling era.

At the end of a lease, the locomotive returns to the owner; not the railroad.  Therefore, it would be up to the leasor (bank or financial company) to determine what to do with it.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

For accounting and tax purposes, the economic lifetime of a locomotive has long been accepted to be 15 years.  While this may not necessarily be the mechanical lifetime of a locomotive, it may well be a reasonable average.  The decision to rebuild or replace is often based on this fact since financing, tax liability, etc. also need to be considered.

[BerkshireSteam]

I was reffering to everything, but you pretty much answered all my questions. As mentioned the total rebuilds by SF to make GP7u's and CF7's came to mind, I honestly forgot that traction motors and prime movers and such need attention too. I was mainly asking to help form better idea's and concepts for my model railroading hobby, which would be set way before the time of the 60 series. But I'm also an attempted non-conformist so I would be less likely to pick the EMD units because "everyone had them" so to speak. Thanks for the info.

Would it also be realistic for a RR to just sell off it's engine at the end of a lease? I ask because on of my favotire engines is the GE U25B and they would be coming up at the end of 15-20 year leases around the time of my modeling era.

[oltmannd]

Do you mean the whole locomotive or just the diesel engine? The diesel engine itself will go 5 years plus or minus a couple for a locomotive in typical line haul service before the power assemblies (heads, pistons, cylinders) need to be replaced. The main crank bearings usually last two or three times that. Back in the old days, when the insulation on the wiring got old, you had to rewire the locomotive - a big job you might do every 15-20 years. You'd usually rebuilt just about everything at that point. However, the insulation quality was so much better by the late 1960s that there are locomotives from that era still running around with their original wiring and cabling. What has driven locomotive replacement over the past couple of decades is fuel efficiency and reduction in fleet size. Lately, emissions regs have played a part, too. You might buy 3 SD60s in 1990 to replace 4 SD40-2 from 1975. Today, you'd buy 3 AC units to replace 4 1990 vintage SD60s, for example.

[BerkshireSteam]

Typically how long would a diesel engine go before it would be rebuilt? How long would a railroad use a diesel before replacing with a new one (I guess that's more of a "how long was the typical lease" question). And finally how many times could a diesel be rebuilt? I know I've heard of some original 38's and 40's up to a -3 configuration now. Some model railroad articles about Sante Fe's GP7u's and CF7's sparked my interest and seeing the Trains free diesel roster download pdf's fueld it with the rosters of rebuilt diesels. Yes I downloaded all of them.