Combo Electric/Diesel Loco?

[aegrotatio]

 I rather thought the ACES arrangement was temporary until the new true dual-mode locomotive order was delivered.

 

[blue streak 1]

Steve UK

The government has plans for some high speed trains with a diesel electric unit at one end for use away from the wires, and a straight electric at the other end of the train. I suppose this 'hybrid' doesn't really qualify. Hitachi seems to be the preferred bidder and assembly should take place in the UK. Exacty where it will happen has not been decided yet.

This plan already has some application planned for the NJ Transit. If you read the NJ T proposal for the dual mode type operation and also the ACEs (Atlantic City Express) is being operated this way however ACE trains do swap directions when changing from diesel to electric. But NJT is planning to operate other trains this way.

[Steve UK]

In the UK we have some electro-diesel locos of Class 73 which live on on the privatised network, and some in preservation. Designed for the Southern Region 750v 3rd rail electrification they can draw power from the third rail or use a small diesel electric setup when away from the electrified system. Currently the 73s are used on infrastructure and short freight normally although they have powered enthusiast specials. The preserved examples all run on diesel only as, despite the work that has been done in preservation, electrified preserved railways don't exist (never say never, of course).

The government has plans for some high speed trains with a diesel electric unit at one end for use away from the wires, and a straight electric at the other end of the train. I suppose this 'hybrid' doesn't really qualify. Hitachi seems to be the preferred bidder and assembly should take place in the UK. Exacty where it will happen has not been decided yet.

[trainfan1221]

Awesome:

(I think they used the FP7 Locomotives).

   Actually they were F9 variations, and the modern ones are built by GE. They are dual mode Genesis units.  Using third rail.

[aegrotatio]

ns3010

This is more preferable than having 46 locomotives shipped back to Germany in order to correct problems.

 

Honestly, why wouldn't they fix them here?

 

[ns3010]

When the '46s were sent over, at first, only two were sent over (one to Pueblo, one to NJT), so that if a problem was discovered (none were), the entire fleet wouldn't have to be sent back. It seems that they are doing this again. This is more preferable than having 46 locomotives shipped back to Germany in order to correct problems.

[beaulieu]

ns3010

ative. In the presentation that was posted above, it is stated on page 4 that one NJT unit will be sent to Pueblo for testing, while another NJT unit and AMT will be sent to their home rails for testing. NJT's ALP-46s, which

 

Long way back to Kassel, Germany if some larger problem is discovered.

[hoot29]

LIRR operates dual power locomotives the dual mode locomotives are in the 500 series they look almost identical to the straight diesel locomotives in the 400 series.

[oltmannd]

beaulieu

You might have seen this presentation already Don, on page 12 there is a preliminary diagram showing internal and external layout. The transformer is in the usual place for modern European electric locomotives, hanging below the carbody, centered between the trucks.

Bombardier dual-mode presentation

 Bombardier already has DEMUs running in France that can run on diesels, 1.5kV DC power, or 25kV AC power, all use 3-phase AC final drive.

Perfect. Thanks. Very interesting. Twin Cats.

[ns3010]

beaulieu

 I would expect that the Bombardier Dual-Modes will test at Wegberg-Wildenrath test center in Germany (between the Ruhr and the border with the Netherlands) since they are being built at Kassel, Germany in the old Henschel plant.

Negative. In the presentation that was posted above, it is stated on page 4 that one NJT unit will be sent to Pueblo for testing, while another NJT unit and AMT will be sent to their home rails for testing. NJT's ALP-46s, which were built in the Kassel plant, were tested in Pueblo, not Germany.

[Deggesty]

Lyon_Wonder

IIRC, some FL9s were in service in Florida too. 

Do you remember any detail on this? I do not recall any electric-powered service in Florida. Thanks,

Johnny

[beaulieu]

You might have seen this presentation already Don, on page 12 there is a preliminary diagram showing internal and external layout. The transformer is in the usual place for modern European electric locomotives, hanging below the carbody, centered between the trucks.

Bombardier dual-mode presentation

 Bombardier already has DEMUs running in France that can run on diesels, 1.5kV DC power, or 25kV AC power, all use 3-phase AC final drive.

[oltmannd]

bogie_engineer

Bombardier received an order from NJT for a dual mode diesel-caternary loco but it will be some time before they are delivered.

Is there any info on them out there? Something like a general arrangement would be nice to see. How'd they shoehorn a transformer and diesel engine/generator, and their attendant cooling systems onto the same platform and still make weight?

[oltmannd]

silicon212

FL9, anyone?

Technically, yes. In practice? They were really rotten electrics. They used the dynamic brake grids with multiple taps to act as accelerating resistors (like a straight DC MU car) and many stages of field shunting to get the locomotive to run at speed on only 600 VDC. The control equipment (many, many relays) was very finicky and usually didn't work. Many, many FL9 powered trains I rode didn't clear the platform in GCT before going to diesel.

[beaulieu]

blue streak 1

Actually NJ Transit and AMD (Montreal) have a combined order for dual mode locos built to operate either on Diesel or overhead CAT (voltages 11.5Kv 25Hz, 12.5Kv 60Hz, or 25Kv 60Hz) . These are now being built but as far as I know the initial one has not been released to go to the TTC at Pubelo, Co.

 

 I would expect that the Bombardier Dual-Modes will test at Wegberg-Wildenrath test center in Germany (between the Ruhr and the border with the Netherlands) since they are being built at Kassel, Germany in the old Henschel plant.

Plug the small village of Wildenrath, Germany into your favorite mapping and aerial photograph website, to see Germany's version of TTCI at Pueblo, CO. It is built on the site of a Cold War RAF airbase.

[blue streak 1]

Actually NJ Transit and AMD (Montreal) have a combined order for dual mode locos built to operate either on Diesel or overhead CAT (voltages 11.5Kv 25Hz, 12.5Kv 60Hz, or 25Kv 60Hz) . These are now being built but as far as I know the initial one has not been released to go to the TTC at Pubelo, Co.

[carnej1]

 Brookville locomotive offers dual mode operation (either 3rd rail or catenary) as an option on their CoGeneration line of Genset locomotives..another option is a hybrid battery storage system, sort of a modern version of the NYC tripower...

[Lyon_Wonder]

EMD FL9 and GE's P32AC-DM, which mostly replaced the FL9s in the 1990s for commuter service.  Both these locos were/are ment for service in places that go through tunnels where diesel exhaust is forbidden, which is mainly in the northeast.  IIRC, some FL9s were in service in Florida too.  Don't know of anyone outside the northeast who uses the P32AC-DM or other dual electric/diesel electric loco?  I guess this is because the northeast has the most electrified rail in the nation, and tunnels in the midwest and west don't have the same restrictions in the northeast.  

[Awesome!]

pajrr

I know that the Long Island RR, Amtrak and Metro-North here in the NY City area use dual mode diesels built by GM and GE. These run either as diesel electric or straight electric locomotives, but using 3rd rail pick-up, not overhead catenary. I don't know if GM or GE will still make them. I'm sure that Alstom or another secondary builder would make such a unit if someone requested one.

I think they used the FP7 locomotive.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Also consider NYC's & DL&W's tri-powers of the 1930's; diesel, battery or straight electric (3rd rail on NYC, overhead on DL&W).

[pajrr]

How about St. Louis Car Company 1929-----diesel electric, straight electric (catenary), battery-----used by Illinois Terminal Co. 3 power modes in 1 package!

[silicon212]

FL9, anyone?

[scottie_r]

Thanks for the replies.  If Metrolinx does go ahead with its electrification plans, the availability of some new Bombardier equipment might be a big selling point. 

[bogie_engineer]

Bombardier received an order from NJT for a dual mode diesel-caternary loco but it will be some time before they are delivered.

[pajrr]

I know that the Long Island RR, Amtrak and Metro-North here in the NY City area use dual mode diesels built by GM and GE. These run either as diesel electric or straight electric locomotives, but using 3rd rail pick-up, not overhead catenary. I don't know if GM or GE will still make them. I'm sure that Alstom or another secondary builder would make such a unit if someone requested one.

[scottie_r]

Does anyone know if any of the locomotive manufacturers build a dual power locomotive, that can bypass the prime mover and take electric power directly from overhead wires, but run on diesel outside the area of electrification?  The authority that operates commuter rail service in the area around Toronto is considering electrification, which seems to me makes sense when passing through built up areas in the city, but would seem to put an expensive limitation on expansion to the more remote parts of the area that they are planning to serve.