Could somebody describe the basic differences between these models?
In broad brush terms, the E's were passenger locomotives and the FT's and F's were considered freight locomotives, however, they could be outfitted with steam boilers and gearing for passenger service.
The first E's were built for the Baltimore & Ohio in 1937. The E in the model designation signified the total traction horsepower of the locomotive....1800. All E model locomotives from the B&O's EA's to the last E9 manufactured had two diesel engines and main generators...with the theory being, if one failed the other could get the train to destination. The early E's from the EA's through the E6's had slanted nose structures. Starting with the E7's the so called EMD 'bulldog' nose was adopted. The E's from the EA's through the E5's were not 'series produced' locomotives, they were specific designs for each railroad that purchased them. Beginning with the E6, all the other E's were series produced and individual railroads could option the basic package to the roads individual wants and needs. The very early E's used the Winton 201 diesel engine. Later in production the EMD 567 was introduced. I may be mistaken, but I think the EA's through the E5's were all 1800hp engines. The E6 & E7's were 2000hp engines, the E8 was 2250, and the E9 was 2400hp.
The FT's were the first diesel electric locomotives designed for road haul freight service, with EMD barnstorming a 4 unit set of FT's across the country in 1939. The T in FT stands for the individual units horsepower....1350hp produced by the EMD 567 series engine.. With the start of WWII the production of FT units was limited and allocated by the War Production Board. Many more railroads wanted more engines than the WPB would permit manufactured with war time material restrictions. The FT's in their natural state, were a A & B unit semi-permanently coupled with a fixed drawbar, at their outset they were normally used in 4 unit A-B-B-A configuration and most commonly all units were given the same road number with a letter suffix to denote the uniqueness of the individual unit. This numbering scheme was to counter act labor agreements that would have paid engineers more, the more locomotives that they operated.
After the War EMD began production of the F3, with 1500hp and couplers on each unit. The F7's also had 1500hp but had improved electrical components. The F9's concluded the production of the F series and they had 1750hp. All the F series locomotive had the traditional EMD bulldog nose structure.
Needless to say, on both E's & F's as time marched on, improvements were made on all the aspects of locomotive operation and control with the changes being too numerous to detail.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
All E units are twin engined passenger locomotives. They have six axles, four powered.
All F units including the FTs are single engined locomotives with four axles all powered.
The EA, E1, E2 classes had two 900 HP V-12 EMD 201A engines. 2x 900 =1800 HP, E stands for "Eighteen" The E3, E4, E5, E6 and E7 had two EMD 567 or 567A engines of 1000 HP each. The E8 had two 1125 HP 567B engines and the E9 had two 1200 HP 567C engines. While the E1 to E7 locomotives were all generally similar in design, the E8 and E9 had a different layout.
The FT had an EMD 1350 HP V-16 567 or 567A engine, F= "Fourteen" , T = "Twin" (the original FT design was built as bar coupled A and B unit pairs), although Santa Fe units always had couplers, and were sometimes called model FS (S for single). The letter "T" as a basic model was already in use for thge Rock Island model TA, a 1200 HP single engine version of the E unit, so EMD went to F rounding the power up rather than down.
All later units had just the "F" since they were always intended to operate as single units. Models were F3 and F7 with 16-567B engines of 1500 HP, F9 with a 1750HP 16-567C engine. There were also intermediate models sometimes called F2 and F5.
A special version was the longer FP 7 or FP9 which had a longer frame for a larger water tank for a passenger train heating boiler, although ordinary F units were built for passenger use. Santa Fe only used "straight" F units for passenger, with boilers only in the B units.
The most particular unit was the FL9 for the New Haven Railroad which could run into NYC Grand Central station using third rail power. These had five axles (B-A1A) to support the weight of the switchgear to operate on third rail located at the rear of the unit. These were used by Metro North until recently.
M636C
The 567 engine was introduced on the E3A demonstrator in September 1938. All E3s through E7s were rated at 2000 horsepower.
BaltACD The very early E's used the Winton 201 diesel engine. Later in production the EMD 567 was introduced. I may be mistaken, but I think the EA's through the E5's were all 1800hp engines. The E6 & E7's were 2000hp engines, the E8 was 2250, and the E9 was 2400hp.
The very early E's used the Winton 201 diesel engine. Later in production the EMD 567 was introduced. I may be mistaken, but I think the EA's through the E5's were all 1800hp engines. The E6 & E7's were 2000hp engines, the E8 was 2250, and the E9 was 2400hp.
About 40 percent of all FT locomotives were delivered with couplers all the way around. The mistaken thought that all FT locomotives were delivered with drawbars between the A & B units is a railfan misnomer that has been perpetuated by bad journalism. All Santa Fe FT locomotives were delivered with couplers, that is 320 FTs, no drawbars.
BaltACD The FT's were the first diesel electric locomotives designed for road haul freight service, with EMD barnstorming a 4 unit set of FT's across the country in 1939. The T in FT stands for the individual units horsepower....1350hp produced by the EMD 567 series engine.. With the start of WWII the production of FT units was limited and allocated by the War Production Board. Many more railroads wanted more engines than the WPB would permit manufactured with war time material restrictions. The FT's in their natural state, were a A & B unit semi-permanently coupled with a fixed drawbar, at their outset they were normally used in 4 unit A-B-B-A configuration and most commonly all units were given the same road number with a letter suffix to denote the uniqueness of the individual unit. This numbering scheme was to counter act labor agreements that would have paid engineers more, the more locomotives that they operated. After the War EMD began production of the F3, with 1500hp and couplers on each unit. The F7's also had 1500hp but had improved electrical components. The F9's concluded the production of the F series and they had 1750hp. All the F series locomotive had the traditional EMD bulldog nose structure. Needless to say, on both E's & F's as time marched on, improvements were made on all the aspects of locomotive operation and control with the changes being too numerous to detail.
Wally Abbey's account of the FT disagrees with your account of what FT stands for. Mr. Abbey says it was simply F for freight and the T was added later. All F units were built with V16 engines, not V12s as you state.
M636C The FT had an EMD 1350 HP V-16 567 or 567A engine, F= "Fourteen" , T = "Twin" (the original FT design was built as bar coupled A and B unit pairs), although Santa Fe units always had couplers, and were sometimes called model FS (S for single). The letter "T" as a basic model was already in use for thge Rock Island model TA, a 1200 HP single engine version of the E unit, so EMD went to F rounding the power up rather than down. All later units had just the "F" since they were always intended to operate as single units. Models were F3 and F7 with 12-567B engines of 1500 HP, F9 with a 1750HP 12-567C engine. There were also intermediate models sometimes called F2 and F5. A special version was the longer FP 7 or FP9 which had a longer frame for a larger water tank for a passenger train heating boiler, although ordinary F units were built for passenger use. Santa Fe only used "straight" F units for passenger, with boilers only in the B units. The most particular unit was the FL9 for the New Haven Railroad which could run into NYC Grand Central station using third rail power. These had five axles (B-A1A) to support the weight of the switchgear to operate on third rail located at the rear of the unit. These were used by Metro North until recently. M636C
All later units had just the "F" since they were always intended to operate as single units. Models were F3 and F7 with 12-567B engines of 1500 HP, F9 with a 1750HP 12-567C engine. There were also intermediate models sometimes called F2 and F5.
SSW9389 About 40 percent of all FT locomotives were delivered with couplers all the way around. The mistaken thought that all FT locomotives were delivered with drawbars between the A & B units is a railfan misnomer that has been perpetuated by bad journalism. All Santa Fe FT locomotives were delivered with couplers, that is 320 FTs, no drawbars.
Well...it is true that FT's were designed to operate as A-B sets with a drawbar between them, as shown by demonstrator FT 103 (two A-B sets) that toured the country in 1939-40. (OK they could be built as A-A units also, but IIRC only one or two railroads chose that option.)
As designed FT's had provision for couplers only at one end of each unit - which is part of the reason they had the unusual "off center" overhang, as the end set up for couplers stuck out farther beyond the truck than the other end of the unit did. In fact, the first FT's didn't even have a door between the A and B unit; just a walkway and bellows.
Several railroads, particularly the Santa Fe, wanted to be able to use the A and B units separately and GM was able to jerry-rig a way to put couplers in place for them.
A number of railroads found that the A-B sets were too limiting - often two units weren't enough power, four (A-B+B-A) was too much...three would be "just right". Early in production GM came out with the FTSB (FT Short Booster) that allowed railroads to buy FT's in A-B-A drawbar connected sets (but without space for a steam boiler in the B unit).
Also after WW2 many railroads ordered F2's (or early F3's) A units individually and used them with their existing FT A-B sets as A-B-A sets - something the Burlington called "FT2's" IIRC.
Santa FE to get around the Union contracts had Most of theirs delivered in a A-B-B-B setup. They even went so far as had the ones that were delivered as A-B-B-A's shipped back to EMD ordered an extra B unit for the first A and then 3 B's for the second B in the set. Even 100 the First PRODUCTION FT EVER BUILT was redone this way. BTW if you ever see any of the old Santa Fe GP-20's and GP 30's running around those Blomberg B trucks under them guess what they were the ones that were UNDER THE OLD FT's.
edbentonSanta FE to get around the Union contracts had Most of theirs delivered in a A-B-B-B setup.
http://spazioinwind.libero.it/cajon/roster/sfdiesel.htm says SFe got 160 A-units, 160 B-units.
Timz correct count is 155 A units and 165 B units for Santa Fe FTs. Mr. Fuhriman's roster note on Santa Fe FTs is incorrect. Santa Fe FTs were delivered as ABBB sets until another agreement with operating unions was made in 1943. Santa Fe subsequently had additional FT A units delivered to make up for all those extra B units they had been buying. Come in Mr. Sperandeo.
timz edbentonSanta FE to get around the Union contracts had Most of theirs delivered in a A-B-B-B setup. http://spazioinwind.libero.it/cajon/roster/sfdiesel.htm says SFe got 160 A-units, 160 B-units.
Wally Abbey's FT article from the Santa Fe Listserve on April 5, 2001 is worth a read. See http://utahrails.net/drgw/emc-ft.php for this article as preserved on Don Strack's website. Mr. Abbey worked for EMD back in the day.
In the '30s and early '40s EMD was consistent in the use of Horsepower based model numbers. They include
SC - "S"ix hundred horsepower "C"ast frame
SW - "S"ix hundred horsepower "W"elded frame
NC - "N"ine hundred horsepower "C"ast frame
NW - "N"ine hundred horspower "W"elded frame
TA - "T"welve hundred horsepower "A" unit
E - "E"ighteen hundred horsepower
This system quickly broke down when the horsepower per cylinder raised.
If you look at the advertising GM placed in the trade journals at the time the FT was being marketed you can plainly see that EMD was pushing a 4 unit Fifty Four hundred horsepower locomotive and alternately a 2 unit Twenty Seven hundred horsepower locomotive. Following the then current practice of EMD the locomotive name stood for "F"ifty four hundred, "T"wenty seven hundred.
The idea that F stands for freight is the title of an article D P Morgan wrote in Trains in the 1960s, not from any EMD documentation from the FT days.
JonathanS did you read the linked Wally Abbey article? Abbey cites "F" as an EMC drawing board term. That means it was pre January 1, 1941, likely the term dates back to late 1938 or early 1939 when the model "F" was still on the drawing board. Can I see your revisionist history license?
Ed
JonathanS The idea that F stands for freight is the title of an article D P Morgan wrote in Trains in the 1960s, not from any EMD documentation from the FT days.
SSW9389 Wally Abbey's account of the FT disagrees with your account of what FT stands for. Mr. Abbey says it was simply F for freight and the T was added later. All F units were built with V16 engines, not V12s as you state.
The 12 was a typographical error and I have corrected the original post, thank you.
Mr Abbey might not have had access to the same information as I had.
Many people believe that SW stands for "switcher" when it actually meant "Six Hundred Horsepower with Welded Frame".
If "F" stood for freight it was the first and only EMC/EMD model letter pre WWII that did NOT represent the horsepower. The "T" for twin is the best explanation for internal EMD references to ATSF units as model FS (ie single).
Just because somebody says that F stood for freight in 1939, I would not believe them unless they had evidence to support it. It came to mean that later in general usage, just as SW came to mean switcher. But that doesn't mean that was its original meaning.
They could just as easily have continued the "T" series started with the RI locos which had four axles and sixteen cylinder engines, which would have been analogous to the continuation of E for the twin engine units.
I looked at the Wally Abbey article and he states that he does not know where the designation came from. As to the statement that the "F" is a drawing board term then that is likely the size of the drawing. Common drafting vellum of the era came in size A through size G with G being rarely used because it was so large that it required special tables. Most, but not all, firms used the drawing size as part of the drawing name. So "Freight Locomotive F" is likely the name of the drawing not the name of the locomotive. Remember up to this time GM had produced only passenger and switching locomotives.
Here is a link to a copy of the revised operating manual for what we call the FT
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/manual/ft-sec0.html
On the title page it is referred to as a 5400 horsepower locomotive. When you get down to the specifications they are either listed as per unit, per 5400 horsepower or per 2700 horsepower. Whenever the document refers to a locomotive it is either a 5400 hp or a 2700 horspower locomotive. The manual talks about units, but never refers to an individual unit as a locomotive
Also, as I stated previously, the advertisements GM placed in the trade magazines in the circa 1940-41 era referred to it as a 5400 horspower locomotive or a 2700 horsepower locomotive. Again the ads do not use the nomenclature FT.
I checked the posted link and indeed Mr Abbey does not say that "F" stands for anything, just that it was a model letter.
With the "S/N/E/T" sequence posted above, I am happy that it stood for "fourteen hundred horsepower" since "T" was in use for "twelve hundred" and thus "thirteen hundred" was unavailable.
It was also the next letter after E, the letter used for passenger main line units.
The fact that "FT" units were generally "twin" units and that EMD subsequently used FS for "single" units just confims my thoughts.
During WWII production of E units was halted because the War Production Board decreed that no new passenger engines should be built for the duration as the need for freight power was the greater strategic necessity. The production of FT units was severely limited because the Navy optioned most of the diesel powerplants, adapted them for marine use and used them in everything from Destroyer Escorts to LST's. The first railroad to get a significant fleet of FT's was the Santa Fe which employed them on it's highly strategic desert lines through New Mexico and Arizona. Using the FT's here kept the line fluid so that Los Angeles could become a major staging area for the Pacific War. Office of War Information photographer Jack Delano documented the FT's working across the desert in March, 1943. His images can be found in the American Images Collection now on the Web. It's a neat collection and a must visit site for FT fans!
This is partially true. E unit production resumed in February 1945 and about 70 E7s were built before World War II ended. The War Production Board relaxed its restriction on passenger units and experimental units at the end of the fourth quarter of 1944. War Production Board information from Richard Steinbrenner's ALCO A Centennial Remembrance and E7 production data from A J Kristopans GM Serial Number Website.
JimValle During WWII production of E units was halted because the War Production Board decreed that no new passenger engines should be built for the duration as the need for freight power was the greater strategic necessity.
During WWII production of E units was halted because the War Production Board decreed that no new passenger engines should be built for the duration as the need for freight power was the greater strategic necessity.
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