GE has always offered extremely good financing terms to the railroads that buy their product. I've read elsewhere that this made GE engines more economical than EMDs at least in the short term. Here's a link to a smilar discussion on another forum.
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=47078
If the GEVO 12 cylinder engine is worse than the FDL16 and certainly a lot worse than the 710, than why is UP still ordering the ES44ACs by, the hundreds, as are BNSF, NS, CP, and CSX? Maybe the GEs are much less expensive than EMDs.
The big reason we are not putting the 12 Cyl C45 engine in them is the less than bad reliability of the new evo engine. the FDL may be an old engine BUT is is well known by all the shops and mechanics, all the tooling to work on them is already purchased and they are more relaible.
The UP AC6000CW's were built prior to January 1, 2005 and as such are not required to meet Tier II emissions standards. Its the original build date that counts.
The engine swaps for both the CSX and UP units are atleast partially funded by GE, as to how much they are covering I do not know. Whatever the cost may be it would be to GE's benefit to help as not only is it good customer relations but in the end also eliminates the troubled HDL prime mover and any support for it. With only 208 HDL powered AC6000CW's ( 3 GE demo's, 8 BHP Iron Ore, 117 CSX and 80 UP) it makes sense to do whatever is necessary to eliminate the HDL from service.
As for GE choosing FDL's over 12 cylinder GEVO's, rebuilding the units with FDL prime movers makes the most sense as they already have 106 AC6044CW's in the fleet and the 80 rebuilt units will more or less be identical. Rebuilding them with GEVO-12's would just result in a small fleet of oddball locomotives regardless of whether they already stock parts for this prime mover or not. Also at this point UP is not interested in 6000hp units following its AC6000CW and SD90MAC-H experience, hence not rebuilding them with GEVO-16's ala CSX and BHP Iron Ore.
As far as the 41 SD90MAC-H's returned to EMD, these units are not being scrapped. The 6000hp units for China are built with completely new components.
Bryan Jones
beaulieu GE may not have offered to pay for the conversion of UP's AC6000CWs, if they didn't, then it would be cheaper to convert them to FDL engines. Also UP probably doesn't believe they need 6000 hp. locomotives. Since the 16-cyl. GEVO uses a single turbo it must be different from the one used on 12-cyl. GEVO engines. The additional parts needed may figure into why UP went the way they did. In any case the UP wanted to eliminate the HDL parts supply. China has ordered 6000hp diesels because they operate trains differently than we in the US operate them. The same trains that get 6000hp. diesels on non-electrified lines, get 10,000hp. electric locomotives on lines that are wired.
GE may not have offered to pay for the conversion of UP's AC6000CWs, if they didn't, then it would be cheaper to convert them to FDL engines. Also UP probably doesn't believe they need 6000 hp. locomotives. Since the 16-cyl. GEVO uses a single turbo it must be different from the one used on 12-cyl. GEVO engines. The additional parts needed may figure into why UP went the way they did. In any case the UP wanted to eliminate the HDL parts supply.
China has ordered 6000hp diesels because they operate trains differently than we in the US operate them. The same trains that get 6000hp. diesels on non-electrified lines, get 10,000hp. electric locomotives on lines that are wired.
the 12 cylinder GEVO uses a single turbocharger. I have read that the 16 cylinder version may still use twin turbos like the HDL engine but I'm not sure about that..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Bryan Jones That is incorrect info. First of all there were never any plans to scrap the UP AC6000CW's. Likewise the entire SD90MAC-H fleet has not been scrapped, with the only units going to scrap being the 21 units which UP owned outright. The other 41 units were leased and returned to EMD at the end of the lease. The entire UP AC6000CW fleet is being rebuilt with 4400hp 16 cylinder FDL prime movers, not 12 cylinder GEVO's. The rebuilt units are essentially the same as the AC6044CW "convertible" locomotives which were already in operation and never upgraded to 6000hp units. Following rebuild the units are renumbered from the 7500 series to the 6888-6935 and 6937-6968 number blocks. Sofar around 30 of the units have been rebuilt with the others to follow as they undego overhauls. Bryan Jones
That is incorrect info. First of all there were never any plans to scrap the UP AC6000CW's. Likewise the entire SD90MAC-H fleet has not been scrapped, with the only units going to scrap being the 21 units which UP owned outright. The other 41 units were leased and returned to EMD at the end of the lease.
The entire UP AC6000CW fleet is being rebuilt with 4400hp 16 cylinder FDL prime movers, not 12 cylinder GEVO's. The rebuilt units are essentially the same as the AC6044CW "convertible" locomotives which were already in operation and never upgraded to 6000hp units. Following rebuild the units are renumbered from the 7500 series to the 6888-6935 and 6937-6968 number blocks. Sofar around 30 of the units have been rebuilt with the others to follow as they undego overhauls.
As far as the SD90MAC-Hs which were returned to EMD aren't most of them being scrapped with engines and other components going to China for their new 6,000 HP units?
What's the advantage of using the FDL engine over the GEVO?
It sure would have been nice to see them at 6000 HP and doing 75-80 mph on hotshots.
Contrary to popular belief, reliability wasn't the reason for the move from less more powerful to more less powerful locomotives... It was mostly flexibility and a few other issues. I don't remember all of them at the moment, but I do know reliability wasn't an issue...
I recently read on one of the forums that some of the UP AC60's are to be rebuilt with 4400HP 12 cylinder GEVO engines? Previously It had been reported that the whole fleet was to be scrapped just as the SD90MAC-H's were..
Thanks! UP should start their own program and get these units on intermodal trains instead of using them to haul rocks.
fecsd40-2Has the program to rebuild the AC6000CWs with 16 cylinder GEVO engines been sucessful? If so,do they plan to do the whole fleet?
All units will be rebuilt; although the preproduction units (600-602) might be rebuilt somewhat differently than the other units.
Has the program to rebuild the AC6000CWs with 16 cylinder GEVO engines been sucessful? If so,do they plan to do the whole fleet? I'd love to see new ES60AC locos ordered. I believe reliability was the reason that the AC6000CW and SD90MACH locos did not generate large orders. When China ordered large fleets of these it may have caused the North American roads to take notice. India's railroad system is taking a look at the high horse beasts as well.
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