I'm a rookie - so my apologies if this is a kindergarten level question: Can a train operator feel any difference of train performance between running through a turnout that is closed as opposed to running through one that is aligned the appropriate track?
I ask this re: the Metrolink engineer in Chatsworth head-on collision a few months ago. Even if he missed the signal entirely or if the signal wasn't bright enough or showed a false green, could he have "felt" something wrong running through a closed switch. Same question re: the Metrolonk conductor.
I've never felt it .. saw the switch stand tear from the headblocks, heard the tie rods bending .. never felt a thing.
jmniiiI'm a rookie - so my apologies if this is a kindergarten level question: Can a train operator feel any difference of train performance between running through a turnout that is closed as opposed to running through one that is aligned the appropriate track?I ask this re: the Metrolink engineer in Chatsworth head-on collision a few months ago. Even if he missed the signal entirely or if the signal wasn't bright enough or showed a false green, could he have "felt" something wrong running through a closed switch. Same question re: the Metrolonk conductor.
A "signal not bright enough" on a route on which the engineer is qualified is not an excuse. The qualification process includes learning where all the signals are located, so if a signal vanishes or is knocked down by something or does not display a color or is turned sideways or whatever, the engineer must expect to see a valid signal aspect and if one is not shown, or is not visible, must treat the signal as if displaying its most restrictive aspect (in this case, stop and stay stopped until authorized by a train dispatcher to proceed.)
RWM
jmniii I'm a rookie - so my apologies if this is a kindergarten level question: Can a train operator feel any difference of train performance between running through a turnout that is closed as opposed to running through one that is aligned the appropriate track? I ask this re: the Metrolink engineer in Chatsworth head-on collision a few months ago. Even if he missed the signal entirely or if the signal wasn't bright enough or showed a false green, could he have "felt" something wrong running through a closed switch. Same question re: the Metrolonk conductor.
You can not feel anything when you run thru a switch. and the signal indication of dark or not bright enough will not excuse the engineer for getting by the stop. and a false green is not a option.
wabash1 jmniii I'm a rookie - so my apologies if this is a kindergarten level question: Can a train operator feel any difference of train performance between running through a turnout that is closed as opposed to running through one that is aligned the appropriate track? I ask this re: the Metrolink engineer in Chatsworth head-on collision a few months ago. Even if he missed the signal entirely or if the signal wasn't bright enough or showed a false green, could he have "felt" something wrong running through a closed switch. Same question re: the Metrolonk conductor. You can not feel anything when you run thru a switch. and the signal indication of dark or not bright enough will not excuse the engineer for getting by the stop. and a false green is not a option.
You must think, a locomotive is very very havey. Especially the new ES44AC's/DC's (208 tons). You probably will just haer it. Not evan feel it. Correct me if Im wrong but from what I've heard I don't know if anone know's what happend. Nor will we ever know what happend that awful day.
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Here is a very interesting pictorial synopsis and reenactment of the crash, including views of the signal, switch, and tracks. There is a description of how the switch was damaged by the run-through:
http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2008-09/42434650.pdf
From what I understand, the point of impact was maybe a couple thousand feet or so beyond the switch. When the two trains were at the point where occupants of the cabs could see the opposing train, there was only about 5 seconds until impact at a closing speed of about 80 mph. During this short interval, the engineer of the freight train put the brakes into emergency, but Sanchez did not.
The red signal was some distance beyond the station, and was visible from the station where Sanchez’s train had made a station stop. I think there is a reasonable possibility that Sanchez stood at the station stop with the red signal visible, left the station and approached the red signal, passed the red signal, ran the switch, and closed on the freight train; all without any recognition of those events prior to the impact. During the two minutes prior to impact, Sanchez first received a text message from Person A, and then sent one to Person A. Just seconds after sending that final message, the two trains collided.
If you run through the closed end of a spring switch, you'll hear a thunk thunk as the switch snaps back to the normal position if you're standing on a car platform. You won't hear or feel anything from the closed cab of a locomotive.
The C.S.S. & S.B. RR uses a lot of spring loaded switches. The experienced motormen and conductors knew where they were and listen and felt the rail snap back. They knew by the feel of the train that they went the correct way.
After a while as a passenger I heard and felt it. When they were running at speed you could hear the flange hit the closed rail then your hear it click - click.
He worked the old and first new replacement (Japanese) cars. He said he could tell on the old cars how fast they were going by feel in his feet. He said he was with in 1 MPH when checked.
I was new to riding the S.S. But knew the conductor. As he was collecting fares. He stopped and listened. He asked me if I heard something strange.
I responded that everything was strange to me now.
He stopped the train and got out and inspected the train car. He found a traction cable came loose and was hitting the rail head high objects.
Hi
I Have a question. Which train was supposed to be on the siding the UP or Metro?
Lee
The up train was to be taking the siding
wabash1The up train was to be taking the siding
If that was the case then the Metro was suppose to have waited for the UP to clear the main? This explains a lot.
If the signal "wasn't bright enough" he should have stopped. I think the rules say if a signal isn't working or if the indication a signal is giving is unclear, you're supposed to assume it's the most restrictive indication possible (i.e. "stop").
wjstix If the signal "wasn't bright enough" he should have stopped. I think the rules say if a signal isn't working or if the indication a signal is giving is unclear, you're supposed to assume it's the most restrictive indication possible (i.e. "stop").
Almost right, the rule is the most restrictive indication for that signal. it might be stop it might be restricting.
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