On pictures of CSX 7511 and some similar locomotives, why do flames come out the stacks?
More importantly, why is this allowed? Is it normal? Is this a specific type of engine that does this?
All the stack fires I have encountered have been because of un-burnt carbon in the stacks…and when it lights off it produces flames out of the stack but there is nothing to worry about it just burns off...those was on non turbocharged units…on a turbo I know that carbon can build up on the blades of the turbo but I don’t know if they will ignite…we have never works our turbocharged units that hard…hopefully someone will be able to elaborate further
Older GEs were famous for that, they shot up pretty high. I don't recall the exact reasoning but I don't think there was any big problems with it as the flame was always contained to the exhaust stack and subsided as the loco got moving, usually it was only when the engine was starting to move. It seemed to be a normal occurence. Always an interesting site, especially at night.
Oops, didn't realise nssr had replied in the meantime, but he gave the answer I had heard, carbon build up. And yes, the units I am referring to were turbocharged.
This is one of the more frequently asked questions around the forums.
The true answer is the mass amount of smoke is caused by an overly rich air/fuel mixture. As this rich mixture leaves the stack it mixes with the outside air and subsequently the mixture becomes lean enough to burn and that's when you see the fire.
The overly rich mixture is caused when the GE's true turbocharger can't keep up with the throttle change, usually coming on the change from fourth up to fifth notch. The fuel gets dumped in but the turbo cannot yet supply enough air to support combustion.
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On the older GE's it was not uncommon to see this happen, their are a number of causes stuck injectors, stuck governor and bad load regulation can lead to this and they most always happen when backing out of throttle, now for the EMD the big problem is carbon bulid up in the stack and it happens when throttle is added and the stack gets hot.
Rodney
Okay, so fuel is leaving the exhaust stack and burning.
About that thick, black smoke, isn't that a bad thing? Is this acceptable on today's locomotives and by today's EPA standards?
Kootenay Central Decades ago, when left idling for hours in -35F worn Fairbanks Morse opposed piston locomotives would cool down so much that not all the cylinders would fire when fuel injected. The exhuast beat would become ragged and the smoke a greenish-blue that would hide the streetlights in town at night, depending on the wind. Had to be smelled to be believed!! As the cylinders in an OP were vertical, the unburned fuel would eventually flow out into the horizontal exhaust manifolds at the base of the block, collect, and then drool into the vertical snubbers ( Mufflers ) at the end of the engine. Some of the fuel would always be 'gassing off' in the manifolds and snubbers, just waiting for ignition. Open the throttle to warm up the cab heaters or pump up the air, and BOOM! Long tongues of flame out of both stacks and, possibly cracked snubbers. Something to behold when competing with the Northern Lights! For a while the Company fitted rounded screens to the tops of the stacks on OPs to cut down on forest fires from expelled carbon chips, and they, if fitted, would soar off into space, coming down, hopefully, not on one's head or the Loco Foreman's car. In severe weather, locomotives were sometimes left in Run 4 with Gen Field off to keep them and the cab heaters warm.
Decades ago, when left idling for hours in -35F worn Fairbanks Morse opposed piston locomotives would cool down so much that not all the cylinders would fire when fuel injected.
The exhuast beat would become ragged and the smoke a greenish-blue that would hide the streetlights in town at night, depending on the wind.
Had to be smelled to be believed!!
As the cylinders in an OP were vertical, the unburned fuel would eventually flow out into the horizontal exhaust manifolds at the base of the block, collect, and then drool into the vertical snubbers ( Mufflers ) at the end of the engine.
Some of the fuel would always be 'gassing off' in the manifolds and snubbers, just waiting for ignition.
Open the throttle to warm up the cab heaters or pump up the air, and BOOM!
Long tongues of flame out of both stacks and, possibly cracked snubbers.
Something to behold when competing with the Northern Lights!
For a while the Company fitted rounded screens to the tops of the stacks on OPs to cut down on forest fires from expelled carbon chips, and they, if fitted, would soar off into space, coming down, hopefully, not on one's head or the Loco Foreman's car.
In severe weather, locomotives were sometimes left in Run 4 with Gen Field off to keep them and the cab heaters warm.
My first experience with FMs was similar , on the Milw we would bring the bad smokers into the shop and put it on the loadbox to burn the carbon and fuel out of them. One night the diesel ran away , started burning the oil out of the crankcase . I was ready to run like hell but the old head electrician told me to stay put and went down the running board with a Co2 fire extinguisher. He jammed the nozzle in the airfilters and let it go , the diesel slowly died ..
I was close to the C&NW tracks that run along Lake Street in Oak Park IL. about mid 80s. A train was heading into Chicago. Sparks were showering out of one of the engines.
I looked down the tracks. Fires were all the way as far as I could see. The engine sparks lit up every thing along the way.
That happened here along the NYS&W several years back, during a dry spell. Started miniature brush fires along the ROW as it went along.
There are several NYS&W videos of the flaming stack on unit 2302 (a GE U23B). From the description I mistakenly had the impression that they thought of it as normal operation.
Here it is:
part one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDJBaeUVyqE
part two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT1Cisg4ukI
spikejones52002 I was close to the C&NW tracks that run along Lake Street in Oak Park IL. about mid 80s. A train was heading into Chicago. Sparks were showering out of one of the engines. I looked down the tracks. Fires were all the way as far as I could see. The engine sparks lit up every thing along the way.
I can remember at least two instances where I had sparks coming out of the stacks, they occurred during long pulls with the engines in Run 8, all the carbon would start burning off the manifolds and it looked like a lightshow.
One weekend, Horicon sent down both of the GP7s WSOR had for the next train to Horicon, we got out on the CN main and had them wide open for a good 20 minutes or so, looked like a Roman Candle to the CN crew we met at Rugby.
The other time I was running a grain extra back from Rock Springs, we had two of the SD20 "skunks", had them wide open on Dane hill for about a half hour or so, that one I did ask the dispatcher to have someone come out and patrol to make sure we didn't start a grass fire along the way.
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
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