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Do you really feel the difference in HP

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  • Member since
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  • From: Ontario
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Do you really feel the difference in HP
Posted by da_kraut on Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:46 AM

Hello everybody,

right from the start  I would like to state that I nerver have operated a locomotive and in all likely hood never will.  Still this question has been in my mind for a long time and would like to ask the knowledgeable forum membership for advice.   

When out on the road operating the locomotives do you really notice an extra 100 hp?  Take for example the difference between an SD45 - 3600 hp an SD50 - 3500 hp and an SD60 - 3800 hp.  So if you had a pair of SD45's on a freight one day and an SD45 and SD50 the next pulling a freight of equal weight over the same route would you notice a difference.  Also how much HP do you need before you actually feel a significant change in how the train operates. 

This brings up the question if it is the traction control system that really makes the difference.  Does the change in HP have as great an effect on the locomotives performance as the change in traction control technology?

Thank you 

Frank

"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."

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Posted by jrbernier on Sunday, October 5, 2008 10:15 AM

Frank,

  100-200 HP difference in that range of SD's really does not make a lot of difference.  remember the SD45(3600 hp) was built in 1966-1971.  The SD50(3500 hp, later 3600 hp) was built starting in 1980.  By then, the electrical control gear has advanced quite a lot.  That SD50 benefited from the '-2' electricals of the 70's, and the radar 'SS' wheels slip(something the SD45 never saw back in the 60's).

  As you noted, the control systems improved and control of all that horse power was much easier.  You need HP, which creates 'continuous tractive effort'.  Without the new control systems, we would be stuck at the 3,000 hp level.  Adding HP that you cannot control is of little value.  Some of the engines of the late 60's with high HP proved that point.

Jim Bernier

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by edbenton on Sunday, October 5, 2008 11:06 AM
In the RR's more than likely no you can not feel it however you ask any OTR trucker if you can feel the differance you will get one answer HECK YES.  First truck I drove had a 310 HP Cat that was weak to begin with then with a load of Haz-Mat aka unexpanded Stryofoam which was not allowed on the Pa Turnpike I lost my AFS and with that lost 100 HP  min.  I crawled up hills till I got home.  Then I got that 444 cummions I was in Heaven til it was rebuilt to 720 I would have married that truck if possible. 
Always at war with those that think OTR trucking is EASY.
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Posted by Gary UK on Monday, October 6, 2008 10:22 AM
 da_kraut wrote:

Hello everybody,

right from the start  I would like to state that I nerver have operated a locomotive and in all likely hood never will.  Still this question has been in my mind for a long time and would like to ask the knowledgeable forum membership for advice.   

When out on the road operating the locomotives do you really notice an extra 100 hp?  Take for example the difference between an SD45 - 3600 hp an SD50 - 3500 hp and an SD60 - 3800 hp.  So if you had a pair of SD45's on a freight one day and an SD45 and SD50 the next pulling a freight of equal weight over the same route would you notice a difference.  Also how much HP do you need before you actually feel a significant change in how the train operates. 

This brings up the question if it is the traction control system that really makes the difference.  Does the change in HP have as great an effect on the locomotives performance as the change in traction control technology?

Thank you 

Frank

The way i see it Frank, its not entirely all about horsepower. A modern 3500 hp unit may pull better than an older 3600 hp unit! Theres also alot of other variables like the weight on drivers and number of drivers. Make a coffee, relax and have a good read through this guys web page, straight from the engineers mouth so to speak, he realy knows his stuff- http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/hp_te.htm

Its also a great website.

  • Member since
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Posted by Magoon on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:43 PM

Hey Da-***: With 19 years of right-hand seat time for several railroads, I can tell you that you don't really "feel" the differences in horsepower as much as "notice" it.  With 3 AC units on the head end and a couple of DMUs with 11,000 tons between, I notice that I'm able to accelerate out of slow orders much more quickly now than back in the day with a comparable number of -2's.  If you're wondering about gettin' pushed back in the seat when you notch up, that kind of stuff doesn't happen, no matter what you're running.

 BTW -- all the reading about this stuff might be "fun," but feeling a locomotive is more than academic.  Snoop around your local terminal a bit, bro' up with the local crew, or check out an operating museum.  You gotta get your butt in the seat and hand on the throttle to really appreciate what it's like. 

 Stay safe!

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:18 PM

I always noticed the difference between the SD40-2 and the SD-45 , accelerating , pulling at high speed, they just seemed like they really wnt to go .

Slap a pair of 45's ,Light engine in notch 8 and you will get pushed back in the seat !

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Posted by Magoon on Thursday, October 16, 2008 3:16 PM

Hey, Randy -- you're absolutely right!  Dang -- I was so focused on all that stuff hanging off my drawbar I nearly forgot about the cab hop I got to run over The Hill a long time ago.  It was a lot of fun "punching" those two 45s and seeing how responsive they were... I was forced to turn down the radio because some yahoo kept screaming about slack action in the caboose.  No appreciation for the finer things, I guess!

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, October 16, 2008 4:33 PM

My only cabride was in an SD45 in a yard area, and I was impressed at how quickly it accelerated!! I would think you could notice a difference in horsepower and starting/pulling qualities. I know Warren McGee wrote that a lot of old NP hoggers weren't convinced diesels would work on freight (even though NP had been an early purchaser of FT's and later diesels) until NP got their A-B-B-A sets of F9's in the mid-fifties. Apparently a lot of engineers were converted after seeing how the F9's could couple up to a long freight and walk away with it with seemingly little effort.

Stix
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Posted by BigJim on Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:21 PM

The the BNSF rates their Dash-9's at 4400 hp and NS rates theirs at 4000 hp. You can't tell the difference. The big difference, and I mean big difference, is between the conventional units and the Hi-Ad units. When the Hi-Ad units came to the property, well, you could forget about kicking cars! The things just won't take off. On a district where there are a lot of speed changes and up and downs, a conventional EMD unit consist will make mince meat out of any Hi-Ad unit consist, because when you go to pull on 'em, they pull. Hi-Ad units just sit there and think about when they will start to pull.

The best set of units I ever had was two SD45's with two GP40's. That set of units would really walk the dog!

.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, October 17, 2008 9:31 AM

When I was braking I could tell the difference in horse power by the floor vibration when starting tonnage from a stop other then that no.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Sunday, October 19, 2008 2:30 PM

BigJim

The the BNSF rates their Dash-9's at 4400 hp and NS rates theirs at 4000 hp. You can't tell the difference. The big difference, and I mean big difference, is between the conventional units and the Hi-Ad units. When the Hi-Ad units came to the property, well, you could forget about kicking cars! The things just won't take off. On a district where there are a lot of speed changes and up and downs, a conventional EMD unit consist will make mince meat out of any Hi-Ad unit consist, because when you go to pull on 'em, they pull. Hi-Ad units just sit there and think about when they will start to pull.

The best set of units I ever had was two SD45's with two GP40's. That set of units would really walk the dog!

That is a great  consist, The 40's keep you going while the 45s are making transition, smooth ride.   

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