Trains.com

Building genset/hybrid switchers

2185 views
11 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • 965 posts
Building genset/hybrid switchers
Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Friday, July 11, 2008 5:01 PM
Just wondering, every Genset and hybrid I've heard about uses the frame and fuel tanks of mostly 4-axle former EMD or GE switchers or road switchers.  Does reusing older frames reduce the cost and effort to build these locos substantially?  Have any 100% entirely new switchers been built in recent years?  Are the EMD GP15/20D and MPI Cat-powered road switchers entirely new? 
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Friday, July 11, 2008 6:52 PM

  Most of these engines have been built of of older EMD GP series frames or at least have rebuilt Bloomberg trucks with various rebuilt or new EMD traction motors offered in the deal.  Traction motors are in a sort of 'revolving remanufactured' catagory much like a 'rebuilt' alternator for you car.  The powerplant/s upstairs is usually a skid mounted 'package' that is bolted to the frame and covered with a hood.  Right now, there appears to be 2 or 3 companies offering GenSet locomotives.  The 'Green Goat' versions with mainly batteries seem to have fallen out of favor for the units with 2 or 3 of the 'package' power plants.  They meet current EPA emmisions requirements and appear to save fuel - both big issues.  EMD has now offered a 2200 hp 8-710 engine that they will put into an existing GP series engine.  This is 'Tier II' complient as well - we will see which way sales go....

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • 965 posts
Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Friday, July 11, 2008 8:30 PM
The new 710s may be the saving grace for older 38/40/50-series GPs and SDs in the long term.  I wonder how the new 8-710 compares with Cat Diesels?  At some point EMD may want to drop the Cat-engined, MK/MPI-derived switchers from their catalog and bring back low-medium HP EMD-engine offerings, in addition to the upgrade and rebuild potential with engine offers.  I suspect if EMD's offering is successful, most of the engines will go into upgraded/rebuilt GPs.
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Friday, July 11, 2008 10:33 PM

Lyon,

  EMD only has the 2,000 hp GP20D still in the on-line catalog.  MPI has not had the Genset sales of NRE.  I suspect EMD's 8 cylinder 710ECO offering may be a new direction for EMD.  BTW, the GP20D does not have a CAT engine - it is a GM16V170B20(2,000 hp).  I think these are ex-GM/Detroit Diesel engines that were picked up by who-ever now owns Wabtec/MPI.  Wabtech lists the MPE series of switchers available with:

  • 3 pack of skid mounted Cummins engines(2,100 hp)
  • MTU-Detroit Diesel 12V4000 engine(2,000 hp)

Jim Bernier

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:45 AM
 jrbernier wrote:

Lyon,

  EMD only has the 2,000 hp GP20D still in the on-line catalog.  MPI has not had the Genset sales of NRE.  I suspect EMD's 8 cylinder 710ECO offering may be a new direction for EMD.  BTW, the GP20D does not have a CAT engine - it is a GM16V170B20(2,000 hp).  I think these are ex-GM/Detroit Diesel engines that were picked up by who-ever now owns Wabtec/MPI.  Wabtech lists the MPE series of switchers available with:

  • 3 pack of skid mounted Cummins engines(2,100 hp)
  • MTU-Detroit Diesel 12V4000 engine(2,000 hp)

Jim Bernier

As mentioned in other thread the GP20D (which is designed and built by MPI, EMD only markets it) really does have a Cat engine, EMD just gave it a GM part number.  See Greg McDonnell's "Field Guide to Modern Diesel Locomotives".

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Wyoming
  • 170 posts
Posted by Wyonate on Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:49 AM
Yea, I read about it too where they were using CAT motors to power some new switchers.  I run heavy equipment for a livin, & when I heard about this I am hoping for the day I hear 3 CAT powered AC locos dragging 15,000 tons of coal up the pass in from of my house.  ( You can't beat a CAT )
High horsepower moves me!!!
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Sunday, July 13, 2008 2:18 PM

  Thanks for the info!  I looked all over my Detroit Diesel stuff and could not find that model - so it is a CAT engine - Thanks!

  I am a little surprised that EMD has not come out with a new model based on the 8-710ECO power plant.  The 're-power' path for old GP's is a good one, but a 'new construction' would seem like an option to 'close the loop' on sales and offer another option to the genset engines.  The existing genset's may become maintenace issues as time goes forward, with 3 sets of power plants/generators/control  gear.

  What we have not seen is GE invest into this market.  A 6 cylinder GEVO power plant switcher may be an interesting engine.  About all they have done is work on that Enviromental Hybrid road engine with lots of batteries.  Has it even been out of the GE plant and done any real work yet?  They seem to like to show it off for political types and press stuff.

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • 965 posts
Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Sunday, July 13, 2008 3:35 PM

 Wyonate wrote:
Yea, I read about it too where they were using CAT motors to power some new switchers.  I run heavy equipment for a livin, & when I heard about this I am hoping for the day I hear 3 CAT powered AC locos dragging 15,000 tons of coal up the pass in from of my house.  ( You can't beat a CAT )

MK came out with several 5,000 hp CAT-powered MK5000C demonstrators in the mid-to-late 1990s, but nobody was interested.  Eventually they ended up going to Utah Railway and re-engined with 645s, turning them into EMDs.  IIRC, the MK5000s used regular DC traction and not AC.

Even earlier, several SD45s and SD40-2s on ATSF and BN were re-eniged with CATs to evaluate how the EMD-designs could cope with the engine. 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Elmwood Park, NJ
  • 2,385 posts
Posted by trainfan1221 on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:45 PM
If I recall the rebuild program where some SD45s got the CAT engines wasn't succesful.  Turns out the diesels either weren't compatible or couldn't handle the demands of a locomotive, which is about a lot more than just moving the train.  I never heard anything definitive though.
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Wyoming
  • 170 posts
Posted by Wyonate on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:36 PM
Huh, wow.  Do you guys know why they weren't compatable with locomotives?  And yea I did hear about the new switchers with CAT motors, I hope they work out.  I was talking to a Caterpillar mechanic the other day about Cat and locomotives.  He said he worked on one once and didn't like it, but he also said he didn't like working on scrapers either.  I know Cat builds a Gen-set rated up to 10,000 hp for marine use, far cry from railroad use though. 
High horsepower moves me!!!
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:36 AM

  Many of the CAT re-power jobs on SD45's failed due to less than expected performance for the cost of the conversion.    The higher RPM CAT engine was not a good match when spinning an alternator designed to match a lower RPM power plant.  The Generation 2000 series of CAT powered engines that the SOO and BN bought had Kato(Cato?) alternators, but at times that combination had reliability issues as well.  Building a good diesel-electric locomotive requires matching the components to deliver the performance/reliability required by the customer.  It is one thing to swap out parts and get something to work, and another thing to deliver....

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Mobile Alabama
  • 694 posts
Posted by carknocker1 on Friday, August 1, 2008 2:31 PM
I know that the Gen sets being built by Progress Rail are using CAT Engines and are they have 100 more horse power than their revials .

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy