From a looks perspective I prefer the old spartan cab over the modern cab...is there any hard data to support the safety/efficiency of one cab over another? Likewise, Southern and Norfolk & Western opted for the more expensive high short hood back when railroads in general weren't doing so well and when I would assume every added expense needed to be justified. I wonder if the folks who worked for these roads appreciated the high hood or if it was cursed.
For a crewmember's standpoint, safety cabs win hands down.
Wide cabs are more spacious; better insulated, and climate controlled; usually have much nicer seats; and reasonably stand up toilets. The "air lock" nose doors especially help. They are also more crashworthy, due to the extra reinforcement in the nose - as required by the new FRA crashworthness requirements.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
I heard the desktop controls of the safety cab are not very popular -- the control stand was liked because you could stick your feet out front on top of the heater.
On one hand you could say that locomotive engineers are not payed to stretch their feet out. On the other hand, if you are spending a 12 hour stretch in a locomotive cab, the ability to find a comfortable seating position in important that your back doesn't cramp up - the ability to prop a foot on on a foot rest is part of the "Industrial Care for the Back" manual on ergonomics for workers who have to go long hours in a sitting position.
Did the manufacturers return to a control stand layout or are they still with the desktop controls?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
At the time that N&W and SOU were buying high short hoods, they were not the more expensive option - the cut-down 'nose' was. Also, the N&W operated their diesels 'steam fashion' (long hood forward) on the theory that having the distance, and the prime mover, between the cab crew and the problem at the front coupler was a safety feature.
When the low 'nose' became the cheaper option, N&W bought them.
Chuck
silicon212 wrote:Most newer units are delivered with the AAR control stand while some still come with the desktop - although their numbers are in decline - in favor of the good ol' control stand.
Most of the ES44's and new SD70 series have the control stands...
Interesting to note, CN gave up on the desktop controls after their first order of Dash 9's (#2500 - 2522). All of CN's later Dash 9's and their SD70/SD75I series locomotives had the control stands in place of the desktop controls.
-Tim
i lean VERY far towards spartan cabs. i hate the look of the safety cab, especially since almost all of them have noselights. and i HATE noselights.
maybe i like spartan cabs more since i grew up around them. CNW really made that cab look amazing, almost like it was smirking at you.
my sig image explains why i prefer spartan cabs
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
Lord Atmo wrote:i lean VERY far towards spartan cabs. i hate the look of the safety cab, especially since almost all of them have noselights. and i HATE noselights.maybe i like spartan cabs more since i grew up around them. CNW really made that cab look amazing, almost like it was smirking at you.my sig image explains why i prefer spartan cabs
The only Safety Cab I liked was Santa Fe's GP60M cab. It just has nice proportions. And I like the teardrop windows on it and on the F/FP45s. I don't like the tapered noses on the regular EMD Safety Cab and I can't stand the GE cab. The modern EMD cab is growing on me.
nbrodar wrote: For a crewmember's standpoint, safety cabs win hands down. Wide cabs are more spacious; better insulated, and climate controlled; usually have much nicer seats; and reasonably stand up toilets. The "air lock" nose doors especially help. They are also more crashworthy, due to the extra reinforcement in the nose - as required by the new FRA crashworthness requirements.Nick
Nick has this one right! You railbirds sitting up there on the wire can like anything you want, but, until you actually have to work on the equipment for 12 hrs a day, you'll never have a clue.
As for the "Desktops", I'll let the words of Van Morrison explain them..."Well, I fought it so long child...Makes my shoulders so sore."
Lord Atmo wrote:especially since almost all of them have noselights. and i HATE noselights.
I absolutely love units with nose lights!!! With nose lights you don't have the glare off of the top of the short hood and there is less glare from fog and snow. Yes, noselights are much less a strain on the eyes!
Secondary use of noselights is for train crew members. You can sure warm up your hands in a cold pair of gloves.
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i said ALMOST all of them
i love NS widecabs. in fact, among the crash 9s, the NS ones look the best to me. followed by ATSF
if noselights are so much more ideal, why does NS always use cablights? there MUST be a reason. but hey, i wont complain. looks a whole lot better
BigJim wrote: if noselights are so much more ideal, why does NS always use cablights? there MUST be a reason. but hey, i wont complain. looks a whole lot better I have absolutely no idea why the NS motive power dept. does what it does. They sure don't ask me! Which brings to mind those stupid automatic bells that you can't turn off.
Saftey cabs are ok but if you are switching the old style cab is the best better visability easier to do your work, Jim i haft to disagree with you on nose lights they seem to raise the glare in fog and snow, when foggy around here i turn off ditch lights and keep headlights on, but if i have a engine with nose lights its useless to turn anything off as it wont matter, the other problem with nose lights is when you leave them on and step out it warms the neck ears fast also worse than a flash bulb. and a pair of wire cutters take care of that annoying bell. just dont get caught.
I second the motion.
For line of road, wide cabs win hands down.
For switching work, the spartan cabs are still the best.
Lord Atmo wrote: it makes them look like something out of a childrens' book
What about your signature ?
Spartan cab's hands down. I'd rather somthing look nice than be safe because theres nothing worse than being safe and driving a turd, Well I guess that or being stuck in OSHA Wisconsin...
I hate working nights
The only reason I would think an engineer would prefer a spartan cab is visibility. From what I've seen, a trainman riding on the nose in front of the engineer's catwalk on a spartan cab can be seen by the engineer. I don't think that's possible with wide cabs unless the trainman leans out.
I have ridden in spartan cabs and from what I have heard from mainline trainmen, they love the wide cabs for comfort reasons. It's less noisy, and warmer in winter, plus cooler in summer. For some reason, they say the ride is better as well- although I have no personal basis for comparison.
I think there's a lot to be said for having a heavy duty structure in front of you that's designed to buffer, then divert, crash debris. My understanding is that the wide cab was designed to throw things like automobiles either off to the side, or up and over... which is a little rough on the hit object, but pretty important in saving lives of the crewmen.
I was invited up into the cab of a brand new NS wide cab- it was so new they had spray painted road numbers on the sides and nose. The engineer I talked to said he liked the computerized readouts- there was a flat screen mounted on the stand above the "standard" AAR controls. It might have been a case of someone falling in love with something brand new.
I gave up trying to argue asthetics of locomotives a long time ago... for some reason, the railroads have not consulted with me personally. This might explain the demise of the EMD F unit... which was the original "safety cab"...
erikthered wrote:I gave up trying to argue asthetics of locomotives a long time ago... for some reason, the railroads have not consulted with me personally. This might explain the demise of the EMD F unit... which was the original "safety cab"...
I believe the GG-1 was the orignal safety cab.
One of the design goals of the GG-1 was to be safer than the boxcab versions of the P-5, one of which was involved in a fatal grade crossing accident. You're on the right track about the F units nose, this was derived from the E units noses which were developed due to safety concerns with the original EMD box cabs (AT&SF, B&O).
nanaimo73 wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: it makes them look like something out of a childrens' bookWhat about your signature ?
it could interpreted as that. but it's mainly illustrating how i see locomotives and why i refuse to call anything with a safety cab a CNW
I've been lucky enough to be invited into both types quite often, and it seems like new hires like the safety cab and computer desk controls, and the old hands prefer the visibility of the spartan cabs. I guess it's what you are used to.
I will say that every engine crew I spoke with liked the comfort of the safety cabs over the spartan cabs, but that is only natural.
About 2 months ago I was in the cab of a 1 month old ES44AC ( KCS) and it was warm, quiet and the seats were extremely comfortable. Back in the 80's, I was in the cab of a brand new SD50 (CR) it was noisy, drafty and the seats were like sitting on padded rocks.
erikthered wrote: This might explain the demise of the EMD F unit... which was the original "safety cab"...
This might explain the demise of the EMD F unit... which was the original "safety cab"...
The "F", "E", and pre-SD50 locomotives were just sheet metal bolted to a frame. In a severe collision (such as with a low-boy trailer or a dump truck), the cab could be relatively easily separated from the frame, making for a nasty experience for the crew.
The new 'safety cabs" have thick steel posts at the front corners inside the sheet metal. These posts are permanetly welded to the frame such that they act as one piece. Vastly superior in a collision.
BTW, the desktop controls were terrible for a long tour of duty (no place to stretch out).
See-es-ex wrote:the newer wide cabs that look like almost like a face to me.
you are not alone, my friend. do they resemble anything like in my sig?
i hate them BECAUSE i see faces. ugly ones
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