F40PH vs Genesis

[Ham549]

And MArch 5, 1999 crash to name a few

[espeefoamer]

The P40s were built in the early 90s and all are out of service.The F40s were first built in 1975 or 76 and lasted on Amtrak until the turn of the century.F40s are still being used on VIA and of commuter operations around the country.P42s and varients are being used by Metro north and Conn Dot,but that seems to be it.

[oltmannd]

Or maybe because the guy who headed the project had ties with GE. Also why did VIA not get any more Genesis locomotives. Also the Genesis is all about looks and not what workes. haveing to remove the prime mover every time you want to work on it isen't very good desighn

You don't have to take the diesel engine out to work on it.

And, OK, I'll bite. Why DID VIA not buy more Genesis?  How about "they couldn't afford them"?

 (I'll let you in on a little secret.  I spent quite a bit of time in LaGrange, Erie and London in the 80s and 90s talking to locomotive design engineers.  Genesis is mostly about function, safety, performance, maintainability and toughness.  "Looks" were applied secondary to all these things)

You seem pretty bright, but you don't seem to have enough information to feed your thinking machinery.  You might try asking and listening more, thinking longer and ranting less  (unless ranting is your hobby...then carry on!)

[edbenton]

Ham is a Question for YOU then why did VIA use the Genesis to replace the LRC's on the fastest service they had and also ise them on the new Renesisnace service they have in Canada also.  Answer they knew the Genesis would also get them there.  Via's F-40's are also 15 years newer than any that Amtrack had and are also the -2 variant with a SEPARATE HEP GENSET IN THEM.  Via also does not have the extensive short and medium haul routes that Amtrack does.  Look at Chicago and how many trains run out of there also with the F-40 most long hauls required 2 with the P-42 alot of them going south like the Texas Eagle and the City of New Orleans now get by with ONE do the math less engines required to get over the raod means less fuel burned saving money. 

[zugmann]

In the battle between facts and passion (or obsession), the latter will always win...

[cprted]

In the battle between facts and passion (or obsession), the latter will always win...

Or at the very least refuse to admit defeat.

And, OK, I'll bite. Why DID VIA not buy more Genesis?  How about "they couldn't afford them"?

Contrary to what Ham would have you believe, VIA didn't buy 20 P42s then decide to stop and rebuild the F40s instead. The VIA P42s were not meant to be a replacement for the F40s but the LRCs.

While 20 locomotives would be insignificant for an operation the size of Amtrak, VIA is a much smaller outfit and 20 locomotives is a substantial purchase. Though Amtrak once had well over 200 F40s in their roster, VIA never owned more than 60. So the VIA-Amtrak comparison really isn't valid.

[chefjavier]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F59PHI

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=67288

Let's see what is the best locomotive?

 

Take a look at the details.....In my opinion, I think F59PHI is worth the money..

[oltmannd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F59PHI

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=67288

Let's see what is the best locomotive?

 

Take a look at the details.....In my opinion, I think F59PHI is worth the money..

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. 

Which details should we look at?  Worth the money for what purpose?  To look at?  Commuter?  Short haul?  Long distance?  Freight?  Easiest to paint with a roller?  What?

[chefjavier]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F59PHI

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=67288

Let's see what is the best locomotive?

 

Take a look at the details.....In my opinion, I think F59PHI is worth the money..

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. 

Which details should we look at?  Worth the money for what purpose?  To look at?  Commuter?  Short haul?  Long distance?  Freight?  Easiest to paint with a roller?  What?

Let's start with Commuter trains in California. L.A. to San Diego for example>Short haul. What do you think?

[oltmannd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F59PHI

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=67288

Let's see what is the best locomotive?

 

Take a look at the details.....In my opinion, I think F59PHI is worth the money..

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. 

Which details should we look at?  Worth the money for what purpose?  To look at?  Commuter?  Short haul?  Long distance?  Freight?  Easiest to paint with a roller?  What?

Let's start with Commuter trains in California. L.A. to San Diego for example>Short haul. What do you think?

A good fit!

[sovablunt]

 I used to have arguments like this over why my beloved Tomcats were retired so that the gay Super Hornets could take over the flight deck. But mainly its cost effectiveness, ease of maintenance and ultimately the fact that the government wasnt too happy with one company either. So, generally, similar rules apply here. I like F40s because of how they look and sound, I'm nostalgic like that. I also know that they are old and and lack the performance and the ease of maintenance based on what I have learned from all you guys.

[chefjavier]

 I used to have arguments like this over why my beloved Tomcats were retired so that the gay Super Hornets could take over the flight deck. But mainly its cost effectiveness, ease of maintenance and ultimately the fact that the government wasnt too happy with one company either. So, generally, similar rules apply here. I like F40s because of how they look and sound, I'm nostalgic like that. I also know that they are old and and lack the performance and the ease of maintenance based on what I have learned from all you guys.

In your opinion which is better plane for maintance, F-14 or F-18?

[YoHo1975]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F59PHI

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=67288

Let's see what is the best locomotive?

 

Take a look at the details.....In my opinion, I think F59PHI is worth the money..

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. 

Which details should we look at?  Worth the money for what purpose?  To look at?  Commuter?  Short haul?  Long distance?  Freight?  Easiest to paint with a roller?  What?

Let's start with Commuter trains in California. L.A. to San Diego for example>Short haul. What do you think?

A good fit!

 

Pretty convient then that that's what they use.

Of course, Santa Barbara to San Diego hardly qualifies as commuter neither does the full extent of the the Capitol Corridor trains nor the Cascades. Those are at best medium distance trains. 

[oltmannd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F59PHI

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=67288

Let's see what is the best locomotive?

 

Take a look at the details.....In my opinion, I think F59PHI is worth the money..

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. 

Which details should we look at?  Worth the money for what purpose?  To look at?  Commuter?  Short haul?  Long distance?  Freight?  Easiest to paint with a roller?  What?

Let's start with Commuter trains in California. L.A. to San Diego for example>Short haul. What do you think?

A good fit!

 

Pretty convient then that that's what they use.

Of course, Santa Barbara to San Diego hardly qualifies as commuter neither does the full extent of the the Capitol Corridor trains nor the Cascades. Those are at best medium distance trains. 

I think that 100-200 miles stuff is short haul.  Medium haul would be those day coach trains like the Maple Leaf, Pennsylvanian and Carolinian.  Somewhat longer distances between the stops.

[chefjavier]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F59PHI

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=67288

Let's see what is the best locomotive?

 

Take a look at the details.....In my opinion, I think F59PHI is worth the money..

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. 

Which details should we look at?  Worth the money for what purpose?  To look at?  Commuter?  Short haul?  Long distance?  Freight?  Easiest to paint with a roller?  What?

Let's start with Commuter trains in California. L.A. to San Diego for example>Short haul. What do you think?

A good fit!

 

Let's talk about long-haul from LA to CHicago.. What would be the right unit for the job. In my opinion F40PH

[bogie_engineer]

MotivePower's MP40PH-3C being delivered right now to GO Transit would be best in my opinion.  It's got an honest 4,000 traction HP regardless of HEP demand and a proven EMD traction system, all while meeting Tier 2 emissions.

[YoHo1975]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F59PHI

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=67288

Let's see what is the best locomotive?

 

Take a look at the details.....In my opinion, I think F59PHI is worth the money..

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. 

Which details should we look at?  Worth the money for what purpose?  To look at?  Commuter?  Short haul?  Long distance?  Freight?  Easiest to paint with a roller?  What?

Let's start with Commuter trains in California. L.A. to San Diego for example>Short haul. What do you think?

A good fit!

 

Pretty convient then that that's what they use.

Of course, Santa Barbara to San Diego hardly qualifies as commuter neither does the full extent of the the Capitol Corridor trains nor the Cascades. Those are at best medium distance trains. 

I think that 100-200 miles stuff is short haul.  Medium haul would be those day coach trains like the Maple Leaf, Pennsylvanian and Carolinian.  Somewhat longer distances between the stops.

Well, it's ~100Miles LA to San Diego, so when you tack on the trip to Santa Barbara, it's significantly longer. Cascades is for sure longer.

I'm not sure how long the distance is from Bakersfield to Sacramento is for the San Joanquins (which is what I meant when I said capital Corridor.) 

[oltmannd]

MotivePower's MP40PH-3C being delivered right now to GO Transit would be best in my opinion.  It's got an honest 4,000 traction HP regardless of HEP demand and a proven EMD traction system, all while meeting Tier 2 emissions.

An EMD guy is just never gonna like anything GE, huh!  

According to MotivePower's web page, the MP40PH-3C locomotives weight 285-295,000#.  That's a lot!  I'd guess you'd not want to run them much faster than 80 mph or so. 

They'd be great for some of those long METRA gallery trains, though.  Fast loading, lots of HP for traction for good acceleration between suburban station stops.

[oltmannd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F59PHI

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=67288

Let's see what is the best locomotive?

 

Take a look at the details.....In my opinion, I think F59PHI is worth the money..

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. 

Which details should we look at?  Worth the money for what purpose?  To look at?  Commuter?  Short haul?  Long distance?  Freight?  Easiest to paint with a roller?  What?

Let's start with Commuter trains in California. L.A. to San Diego for example>Short haul. What do you think?

A good fit!

 

Pretty convient then that that's what they use.

Of course, Santa Barbara to San Diego hardly qualifies as commuter neither does the full extent of the the Capitol Corridor trains nor the Cascades. Those are at best medium distance trains. 

I think that 100-200 miles stuff is short haul.  Medium haul would be those day coach trains like the Maple Leaf, Pennsylvanian and Carolinian.  Somewhat longer distances between the stops.

Well, it's ~100Miles LA to San Diego, so when you tack on the trip to Santa Barbara, it's significantly longer. Cascades is for sure longer.

I'm not sure how long the distance is from Bakersfield to Sacramento is for the San Joanquins (which is what I meant when I said capital Corridor.) 

Well, to be fair, it's probably the station spacing and route profile that matter more than the total route miles.  For a typical LD train with station stops 30 miles or more apart, the quicker loading of the EMD doesn't get you much.  The Surfliners, with their fairly closely spaced stations probably benefit from the quicker loading.

[Ham549]

cost effectiveness, ease of maintenance <-- That is why the F40PH was better

[oltmannd]

cost effectiveness, ease of maintenance <-- That is why the F40PH was better

Yes, the F40PH is more cost effective and easier to maintain than an F7.

Are you incorrigible?

You're allowed to like them "just because", you know. 

[zugmann]

Locomotives are machines.  And as such they get worn out and replaced.  Thus is the story of the F40.  It was a step up from the Fs and Es and P30s.  The P42s are a step up from the F40.  They are safer, more fuel efficient, more comfortable, more electronicy, have a longer range, and probably came with a GE warranty when new.  

They'll serve for another bunch of years then eventualy something will replace them.  Time marches on.   

[FTGT725]

cost effectiveness, ease of maintenance <-- That is why the F40PH was better

Isn't it about time you get a life and let this go?

[cprted]

[zugmann]

but stupid threads are the best...

[sovablunt]

 I used to have arguments like this over why my beloved Tomcats were retired so that the gay Super Hornets could take over the flight deck. But mainly its cost effectiveness, ease of maintenance and ultimately the fact that the government wasnt too happy with one company either. So, generally, similar rules apply here. I like F40s because of how they look and sound, I'm nostalgic like that. I also know that they are old and and lack the performance and the ease of maintenance based on what I have learned from all you guys.

In your opinion which is better plane for maintance, F-14 or F-18?

The F-14 was a maintenance nightmare, but you learned how to be a real airframer as opposed to the 18, which is similar to today's cars in that it has onboard diagnostics that help out. But they have flaws, like telling you stuff is wrong when the jet is just fine.

[NashVegasF40]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I had to throw my 2 cents in! I'm not an Amtrak engineer, but I get the privilege of running the old Amtrak F40s every day in commuter service. All of ours went through a complete rebuild and sound deadening tech has gotten super advanced now in the 2020s! Two of our locomotives have cabs almost as quiet as a GE, and that's with the HEP running.

[Erik_Mag]

Now for my $0.02 worth.

From late 2012 to the end of 2014, I was working in Santa  Ana and usually commuting via Amtrak. Motive power then was usually an F40PH (AKA Thunderwagon) or a Genesis - the Genesis were notably better on acceleration.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

As of this date, I still ride behind (or ahead of) an F40PH on Metra's Southwest Service (ex-Wabash) for my daily commute.

[timz]

Erik_Mag

Motive power then was usually an F40PH (AKA Thunderwagon) or a Genesis - the Genesis were notably better on acceleration.

An F40 with Cummins-or-whatever-it-is HEP will do a standing-start mile faster than any GE. If the train is shortish, any F40 will beat the GE.

People say the Siemens are quicker -- apparently that means they can be quicker, but they don't usually turn out to be anything special.