Wow, some of you must be wearing diapers because you are spilling the crap and whining like babies.
It is obvious you know very little on what is involved. It it attitudes like this that has hurt the excursion business in the past and now results on some of the claimed 'secrecy'. The big railroads don't 'owe' the railfan community anything. This, along with the outrageous insurance costs, is some of the many reasons why so many mainline trips are gone. I am simply stunned that someone would accuse the FWHS of 'hiding' info on things such as ferry moves. I spent time on the NS program ( and I still don't like goode ) and I can tell you that on ferry moves, when they say go, you go. End of story. When the 611 was brought back to Roanoke for the last time, do you think they left at 2 AM from Birmingham just to keep people from chasing? It was for upcoming bridge maintenance, but I bet Vinnie still takes that personally!
Cheese wrote: Its a shame.The BNSF is very accomodating to the SP 4449, as well as the UP is for thier steamers (not really a fair point since they have a steam program).I haven't read all the posts, so this has probably been said already, but have the considered running an excursion under Amtrak. The SBRHS does that with the 3751. Trips to tourist lines should not be discounted either. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind hosting the 765 for a week or so. The GSMR has hosted Flagg Coal #75 and will do it again, so, why not the 765. It dosen't nessecarily have to be the GSMR, I just used it as a point.Its a shame the world is so money driven these days that a steam excursion is considered unethical.Cheese
Its a shame.
The BNSF is very accomodating to the SP 4449, as well as the UP is for thier steamers (not really a fair point since they have a steam program).
I haven't read all the posts, so this has probably been said already, but have the considered running an excursion under Amtrak. The SBRHS does that with the 3751.
Trips to tourist lines should not be discounted either. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind hosting the 765 for a week or so. The GSMR has hosted Flagg Coal #75 and will do it again, so, why not the 765.
It dosen't nessecarily have to be the GSMR, I just used it as a point.
Its a shame the world is so money driven these days that a steam excursion is considered unethical.
Cheese
Nick! :)
Vinnie,
A few point about your last post:
I don't think the City of Fort Wayne owns 765 anymore, so why should the citizens expect it to run for their benefit? Just because some public funds were granted, doesn't entitle the public to complete access.
Where in Fort Wayne can everyone look out their backdoors and watch 765 go by? NS owns 80% of the trackage in the fort and it would take a miracle to get them to agree let an excursion run. There are crews outlawing on NS everyday. Why would NS allow an excursion to operate knowing it would cause even more. NS isn't in the charity business, and would want compensated for the extra crews (and the pilot engineer that no doubt would be required). Add that to the cost of insurance, and FWRHS will be giving away seats ala Amtrak.
That leaves CF&E and they, too, are profit driven.
It's taken 30 years to get to this point, are you really so self-centered that you can't wait for 30 weeks or months to see 765 run again? Crawl back under your rock and wait patiently like the rest of us. Or go out and put in few hours in the shop, painting, repairing, or cleaning up the passenger cars. (You can't run an excursion without them, too.) You might have more fun doing that than making paranoid postings on the forum.
The preceeding thread is really off base in several areas. First off, my name is Wayne York of Wapakoneta, Ohio - which is about 15 miles south of Lima, and I have been the Secretary of the organization for the last 14 years. There were 5 people that started this organization in 1972 and there are two of us left that have been active that whole time. Over twenty years has been served on the Board of Directors and in various offices, the rest of that time simply as a volunteer - mostly passenger car and air brake work, and the business side of things. We won't even "go there" in regards to family time used on FWRHS business, family money used on Society business, the grass at home not being mowed on Saturdays, gasoline used to travel 125 miles for each round trip to New Haven an uncounted number of times, "honey, I'm running late (again) tonight" and so on. And let's not forget laying on one's back on the ballast, under a passenger car truck at night, holding a flashlight and beating your brains out trying to change a cranky brake shoe so the coach doesn't have to be cut from the train in the morning along with its 50-plus seats for which people are holding tickets. And we have many members who have sacrificed much more than I have in this most recent overhaul.
Our web site has carried the list of all Board Members and Officers, many with email links, for at least 3 or 4 years. A month or two ago Kelly updated the site and some features weren't reconnected right away. That is hardly a conspiracy of secrecy - Kelly is a volunteer also and this sort of thing takes time also.
The railroad world has changed dramatically since we last ran the 2765 in 1993 and leased the 261 for the New River Trains in 1994. The insurance and other costs have changed to the point that the economics are almost beyond reach. If we are going to operate ANY special trains, we must build good relations and to do so we must honor the wishes of the carriers. It is very disappointing that we can't advertise the deadhead moves, but if we followed the wishes of this thread, we would be doing so for one last time and then as a result, never go anywhere or do anything again! That would be an irresponsible and short-sighted position for us to take.
Until we DO have something to announce for sure, you are welcome to visit our Casad Shop in person. Check out the location at www.765.org. The 765 is open to the public almost every Saturday from 10-4, and since the 765 has been indoors since 1991 - it doesn't suffer from weather any more. I can't imagine what it would look like now if we had left it lay to rust and rot in Lawton Park for another 30 years. There are several hundred thousand people who saw it run in 1979-1993 and there will be more to follow. Even people who have never seen a steam locomotive before seem to "get it" instantly when they see one fired up and running.
BTW, CPR Ted got it right. If you show up regularly and do something useful, you'll know what is going on.
nathansixchime wrote: As for as deadhead moves, these are not moves intended for the public and are often planned and accomplished quicker than there is time to announce it. The locomotive crew has to know about these moves in order to make them work and as in the past, the railroads request minimal personnel impact. No other locomotive operator announces the details of their deadhead moves and usually because the railroads have requested it; it's a lot like sneaking a peek at the bride before the ceremony can begin. If you have comments or suggestions to help make improvements, do not hesitate in letting me know via email or phone. Very Sincerely,Kelly Lynch
As for as deadhead moves, these are not moves intended for the public and are often planned and accomplished quicker than there is time to announce it. The locomotive crew has to know about these moves in order to make them work and as in the past, the railroads request minimal personnel impact. No other locomotive operator announces the details of their deadhead moves and usually because the railroads have requested it; it's a lot like sneaking a peek at the bride before the ceremony can begin.
If you have comments or suggestions to help make improvements, do not hesitate in letting me know via email or phone.
Very Sincerely,
Kelly Lynch
Or like sneaking out of town like a thief in the night. Thanks for giving my suspicions enough support to appear prescient.
Something tells me that given a choice, the people of Fort wayne would prefer to witness the passing of their beloved giant, even if under tow. How are the people of Fort Wayne better served if they have to travel 400 miles to see the thing operate, when in contrast with just a little candor, they could look right outside their back doors and at least see it pass by?
AS far as the (alledged) difficulty in getting notice 'out' announcing pending moves, it seems funny that you recognize the value of e-mail in getting information to you, yet remain so challenged over using e-media to get any messages out. A challenge of convenience, no doubt? Let me guess: "The HTML guy couldn't be found in time"..? LOL!
nathansixchime wrote: As far as contact information, the website lists the officers of the Society and includes a telephone number and email addresses.
As far as contact information, the website lists the officers of the Society and includes a telephone number and email addresses.
Kelly, you left out one very important word. I'm sure you meant to write, "As for contact information, the website NOW lists the officers of the Society and includes a telephone number and email addresses."
As of last week when this thread was started, the listing of the society officers was not included on the www.765.org website. That information is a very recent addition to the organization's "contact page."
Sincerely,
Martin
Thank you for sharing your points of view, gentlemen. You make several points.
The OP asked if there were any "rumors" about the 765 running this year. The definition of a rumor is "a circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth." The last thing any business needs are more rumors, especially this business of historic preservation and operation. It's too small a world to let hearsay spoil all the fun. Recent rumors of a locomotive visiting Chicago (spread on April 1st) reached the owner of the particular railroad before any negotiations could take place and upset the management to the point where any operations were immediately rendered dead in the water.
Contrary to what some have written, the FWRHS still recieves new members and volunteers on a weekly basis. Just because the "big job" of restoring the locomotive is over does not mean there isn't still work to do and an engine to run. The newsletter, website, and brochure continually encourage new volunteers to join up. The newsletter also lists the dates for each Board of Directors meeting, of which members can sit in on and listen. These are not clandestine meetings.
And if you are a member, you should be happy to see more trip details laid out in the forthcoming newsletter.
As far as dates and times for future trips? We don't have them, nor does anyone else. The moment we get any dates and trips in order, that will change. The notion that there is a secret society planning trips and hoping to shield them from the public eye is ludicrous and self-defeating. Readers of the newsletter should also recall the entire chapter dedicated to our proposed Lima, Ohio trips last fall.
Any "real moves" in the future with regards to passenger excursions will be announced via the website, newsletter, and word of mouth. All members will get notice, as they always have, of special events and excursions. As for as deadhead moves, these are not moves intended for the public and are often planned and accomplished quicker than there is time to announce it. The locomotive crew has to know about these moves in order to make them work and as in the past, the railroads request minimal personnel impact. No other locomotive operator announces the details of their deadhead moves and usually because the railroads have requested it; it's a lot like sneaking a peek at the bride before the ceremony can begin.
If you really want to know what's going on, I encourage you to ask someone; call the shop, send off an email, or come down and visit; the best way to know is to be on the floor when plans are being made. As a member and a supporter, you are entitled to take advantage of these opportunities.
As far as the "lack of public face" is concerned, Society members are active online on various forums and in the "real world" and are accessible by email and phone. I don't want anyone feeling left out. These years of hardwork and fundraising were done to share the 765 with everyone.
Dampfmann wrote: I am curious what information is shared in the group's newsletter
I am curious what information is shared in the group's newsletter
That is one of the funny things. In soliciting (paying) memberships, one of the touted perks is the claim that you will start receiving their informative newsletter, thus keeping abreast of their progress. The Newsletters are nice...they always include new photos, stories about what projects are being worked on next, etc...on the surface it is a nicely done little letter.
But, as for any progress reports outlining the scheduling of any REAL moves for the 765, they always just say "keep an eye on our web site..etc etc" meaning that they trust regular members no more than they trust the public at large, with the progress everyone is most interested in.
Gives you a warm feeling, it does.
At least when the City owned the engine, it was available for observation in Lawton park at anytime, and was not being smuggled about like some dowager princess, being intentionally secreted from the public eye.
Sure the restoration is nice, but what good is having the loco in running condition, if they are just going to keep it locked up in a barn? Seems like they should have covered that ground securing a place to operate the thing, before tying up public funds restoring operable condition, but with no where to go.
I'd like to respond to some of the points raised thus far:
1. It sounds like unless you are lucky enough to belong to 765's "inner sanctum," you are left to speculate about any future excursions/movements. I can understand the "slap in the face" VinnieTheHook feels. It sounds like there are members of the FWRHS and then there are members of the FWRHS. I am curious what information is shared at membership meetings and in the group's newsletter (I assume they have both.)
2. I have also noticed the change in tone of FWRHS's message to the public. Over the years, there was a big appeal for volunteerism and monetary donations. Once the project reached completion, the tone changed to one of secrecy and clandestine moves. The FWRHS's own website does not even list the organization's officers when you click the "contact" tab on the group's website. There is only a general e-mail address to handle all inquiries-- unless you are purchasing items from their store. I appears Kelly Lynch is the official information filter for the organization. This lack of contact information and "public face" seems quite odd for an organization that relies upon continued public support and interest for it to exist.
3. I have read from others who moan about train chasers, because they are not fare paying passengers. I can only speak for myself so allow me to share my thoughts. Mind you, I've been a train chaser and I've also been a paying passenger so don't immediately write me off as a foamer. I think the biggest reason people chase trains is the adrenaline rush. Let's face it, nothing else compares to standing lineside and having a huge beast go stomping by with the whistle blasting. Pacing also creates awesome sensory experiences. I can still picture 611 blasting northward across the Ohio flatlands from Columbus to Bellevue when I was only a little boy. My father could hardly keep up with her. Awesome! Let's face it. You don't get the same experience sitting in a passenger car; however, the train ride holds its own set of unique sights, sounds and experiences.
4. I think we can all agree we want to see 765 back in mainline action. It would be a shame if the only workout she receives is the occasional back and forth crawl through the yard during "Throttle Time" sessions. I assume the FWRHS is investigating all possibilities, such as leasing the locomotive to a Class 1 for special excurstions, as a means of getting 765 out on the line.
Keep hope alive!
well then, perhaps they should be a bit more up front with those self serving ambitions, and not solicit member contributions under the auspices of "we"? If they want to operate like a .com no one is stopping them, but then why the .org?
To me it doesn't seem like the DOT should be spending public grant monies to pay for the personal playtoys of a small group of individuals. "Public" being exactly that.
If I worked on it as hard as the "core" group did I would treat it like MY BABY too. As for the RRs keeping it a secret why should they blab about the routes when too many railfans "chase" the loco for free instead of riding behind it and supporting it? The shortline I work for used to have steam run on the weekends but got rid of it just because of this very reason.
But at the same time needless to say, people who make donations to such causes seldom enjoy being treated like outsiders once the prize is within grasp. And that HAS happened here. Perhaps smarter politics by the society's spokesperson would help. He has a unique way of changing the spin on the meaning of "we", depending upon if the society needs something.
VinnieTheHook wrote: Keep a look out at their website and hope for the best, which is all they are willing to allow us 'common folk' to do.Sadly, those guys started acting like the engine was their personal toy, the second they got it actually running.Prior to that it was all about how "we need help", "we need support", and "you can be a part of this experience" all the while that the engine was up on blocks and in need of help. But the second it became operational, all that changed, and the core guys started behaving like some kind of secret society. And it does suck majorly. (just being frank)A lot of FWRHS members who have waited faithfully for years to see that engine run where shut out in the dark when the test run was actually made...talk about years waiting only to be slapped in the face. In a way, I can KINDA understand where the guys are coming from, because they have delicate negotiations with the (possible) host railroads, who are not happy with the prospect of thousands of drooling railfans running all over their property just to get a look. But at the same time, I think that the guys running the FWRHS have taken their cliquishness a step (or two) too far. Indeed acting like the engine is now their personal toy...it's selfish, and it's narcistic. But that is life. Hope folks remember the way they have acted, the next time they desperately need everyones help.Here's to hoping these guys FINALLY swing some kinda deal to actually run that jewel, to give the public which has payed a good portion towards the restoration, a chance to see the thing run outside the confines of their little fenced in proving ground.My bet is that their inaugural run will be hundreds of miles away from Fort Wayne, and when they do make it they will sneak out of town like a thief in the night to prevent the people who truly WOULD like to get a look at the machine stretch it's legs, from actually doing so. So par for that coursereal shame too.Welp, I can hear the hot heads grumbling already, wanting to get in a few shots in rebuttal, so the floor is now theirs
Keep a look out at their website and hope for the best, which is all they are willing to allow us 'common folk' to do.
Sadly, those guys started acting like the engine was their personal toy, the second they got it actually running.
Prior to that it was all about how "we need help", "we need support", and "you can be a part of this experience" all the while that the engine was up on blocks and in need of help.
But the second it became operational, all that changed, and the core guys started behaving like some kind of secret society. And it does suck majorly. (just being frank)
A lot of FWRHS members who have waited faithfully for years to see that engine run where shut out in the dark when the test run was actually made...talk about years waiting only to be slapped in the face.
In a way, I can KINDA understand where the guys are coming from, because they have delicate negotiations with the (possible) host railroads, who are not happy with the prospect of thousands of drooling railfans running all over their property just to get a look. But at the same time, I think that the guys running the FWRHS have taken their cliquishness a step (or two) too far. Indeed acting like the engine is now their personal toy...it's selfish, and it's narcistic. But that is life. Hope folks remember the way they have acted, the next time they desperately need everyones help.
Here's to hoping these guys FINALLY swing some kinda deal to actually run that jewel, to give the public which has payed a good portion towards the restoration, a chance to see the thing run outside the confines of their little fenced in proving ground.
My bet is that their inaugural run will be hundreds of miles away from Fort Wayne, and when they do make it they will sneak out of town like a thief in the night to prevent the people who truly WOULD like to get a look at the machine stretch it's legs, from actually doing so. So par for that course
real shame too.
Welp, I can hear the hot heads grumbling already, wanting to get in a few shots in rebuttal, so the floor is now theirs
Has anyone heard any rumors of possible mainline running of NKP 765 this year? A long running notice on their website says excursions are "To be announced."
Thanks,
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