Good answers. I agree that the PRR was more traditional than the NYC -until Raymond Lowie, and of course the GG-1's, the streamlined K-4's, and the S-1 ---and the C&O-designed J's of course, did not have the traditional headlight position. Bit the T-1's came pretty close!
My respect for N&W is now even greater. That the Y-5's and Y-6's, compound Mallets, could run well at over 60 mph! That must be the fastest in regular service of any Mallets. I did know about the speed capabities of the A's, which were simple articulateds, and I still consider the J's to be the finest passenger steam locomotives built.
I had forgotton about the different starting characteristics of steam and diesel (also electric), and thanks for the refresher.
The Yellowstones were purchased to operate on the Iron Range Div. to Two Harbors which is somewhat "sawtoothed" there are also three adverse grades of 0.65 % . However, the highest tonnages were achieved in later days when the Yellowstones were displaced by diesels from the Iron Range Div. to the Missabe Div. to Duluth. Here the toughest grade is from the Cloquet River crossing to near Saginaw, MN. A 0.3 % climb. The DM&IR is nearly flat, but not all downhill either. The DM&IR bought 12 2-8-8-2 Mallet Articulateds for service on Proctor Hill. The five newest were later "Simpled" for road service on the Iron Range Div., then they migrated to the Missabe Div. with the advent of the Yellowstones, and finally were pushed to the scrap lines when the Yellowstones were pushed off the Iron Range Div. by the diesels.
WSOR 3801 wrote: On the DM & IR, most of the loads went downhill, towards the docks. They also had a special air system to help get the trains downhill safely.
On the DM & IR, most of the loads went downhill, towards the docks. They also had a special air system to help get the trains downhill safely.
True as far as dock trains from Proctor going down to the docks in Duluth, but the Missabe had a very difficult "sawtooth" up and down profile, wouldn't be unusual for the engine to be going downhill while the middle of the train was going uphill, and the caboose going downhill. Course technically the Yellowstones weren't mallets, but their 2-8-8-2's were...although I think they were "simplified" eventually??
The ATSF also had 2-6-6-2s. 65 of them, called Prairie Mallets. The first one was built from 2 2-6-2s put together. Didn't go as fast as designed (30 mph vs. 45), but could pull fairly well. Article in February 1987 Trains about them, as well as many other ATSF steam engines.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
daveklepper wrote:Why did the PRR almost always place headlights at the top front of the boiler and the NYV centered on the smokebox door?
Why did the PRR almost always place headlights at the top front of the boiler and the NYV centered on the smokebox door?
Like Pennsy and NYC would ever do anything the same !! But it was up to what the RR preferred, although in general putting the headlight high on the smokebox (up near the stack) seemed to be very common in the 19th century, and over time more and more railroads in the 20th c. moved them down to the smokebox center (or thereabouts)...and Pennsy was very "traditional"
daveklepper wrote: What was the highest speed regularly operated by Mallet locomotives (not simple articulateds) and where on what railroad?
What was the highest speed regularly operated by Mallet locomotives (not simple articulateds) and where on what railroad?
Short answer would be "not very high" high speed. Compounding gave you a more powerful and efficient engine, at the cost of speed. Simple articulateds like UP and NP Challengers could run at passenger train speeds, Mallets were best slugging it out at 15-20MPH.
daveklepper wrote:The DM&IR 2-8-8-4's are reported to have singly hauled 18,000-ton ore trains. But didn't this require special high-streingth couplers?
The DM&IR 2-8-8-4's are reported to have singly hauled 18,000-ton ore trains. But didn't this require special high-streingth couplers?
Steam engines started very slowly compared to diesels, so the strain on the couplers came gradually. When the FT's first came along, it wasn't uncommon for an engineer running an A-B-B-A set for the first time to pull a coupler off a freight car, because the diesel's power was all there at the start, and when the engineer applied full power at the start (as he would with steam) the 'snap' of the quick start would be too much for a coupler box on a car back in the train.
rrnut282 wrote:What about N&W class A 2-6-6-4s? Weren't they built for higher speed running?
The Class A's were simple, a true Mallet (like a Y-6) is a compound.
You can read more about the ATSF Baldwin mallet at this web site. Needless to say, Baldwin got wrong.
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/blwmal00.Html
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daveklepper wrote:The N&W "Y's" were intended for low-speed coal-drag work, and I doubt they were allowed over 45 mph, but I would be happy to be corrected. They were certainly the most modern Mallets in North America. U suspect the Santa Fe types referred to are the answer, but I'd be interested in knowing what their top speed was. Also, didn't the Santa Fe have some articulateds where THE BOILER WAS ARTICULATED?
You are quite right. I was recently browsing through my copy of "Articulated Locomotives" and it includes Santa Fe's Mallets with jointed boilers.
The N&W "Y's" were intended for low-speed coal-drag work, and I doubt they were allowed over 45 mph, but I would be happy to be corrected.
Dave,
I guess it depends on where you draw the line on 'high speed'. Sure, the Y's were designed to slug tonnage up the hill. It seems that most people wrongly believe that the N&W was all uphill because most of the press about the Y's has been about coal fields in West Virginia and a little bump in the land some people call "Blue Ridge". There was a whole lot more to the N&W than that.
There was also a lot of flat land running on the Shenandoah, Pokey, Scioto and Norfolk Divisions. Many had speed limits of 45 mph and over. The Y5 - Y6 could slug the tonnage up the hill and then run in excess of 45 downhill and make time across the flat land. Ed King's book on the Y's hints of one running around 70 mph on the Bristol Line. An engineer that I worked with said 63 mph was about all you wanted to run one, after that things started getting a little shakey.
So, the Y's weren't just dragging around all day and night at a snails pace. They could move on when they had to.
High speed mallets. Just a guess for now. Norfolk & Western?Edit: Search reveals this thread about mallets.http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/298000/ShowPost.aspx
Undoubtedly this started as a preference of one PRR Chief Mechanical Officer, and then came to be the company's style. As another example the Soo Line mounted the headlight bracket on the center of the smokebox door, this caused the headlight to be off-center high, the Soo Line like many granger roads was cheap, they had to be to survive, much easier to figure out the center for the bracket and let the headlight be where ever.
Probably Santa Fe, they bought some Prairie Mallets (4-4-6-2) for passenger service over Raton Pass, they didn't work out well as they were slippery.
Not really, remember that their maximum tractive effort is about 140,000 lbs, so that is how strong the draft gear has to be, plus a small safety margin. Current standard draft gear rating is 390,000 lbs and most coal train equipment is rated for 500,000 lbs of pull.
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