Hello,
I am leading an effort to plan a temporary rail event to help celebrate the history of rail in a small city for its birthday. I would disclose more right now, however, we are in the very early stages and do not want to release too much information to the public. At this stage, I am looking for advice in how to estimate the costs. This event will have funding, however, a rough cost estimate must be given to release funds. We would like to do the following:
To summarize, I just need to know if anyone has experience or a concrete way to estimate costs for storage in an average yard, transportation to, and other associated costs with a similar event. Examples are welcome, so I can reach out to planners of previous events. If anyone also has experience running trains as a visiting steam engine or to offer rides, please also provide input. Thanks for the help, let me know if you need clarification. DM me as well if you've done this, have industry experience, or think you may have some way to contribute. Thanks!!!
Do not pass GO, do not collect $200, proceed directly over to RyPN and join them, and ask the community over there how to do it. One regular participant is Ross Rowland, who has written much of the book on what to do, and what to avoid, in this kind of event. Make a friend of Kelly in Fort Wayne.
The 'serious preservationists' will also know the current state of legal requirements, insurance, and practical logistics.
If I were you, I'd enlist organizations like Lions or Rotary in this -- many members have 'distinctive competence' in securing assistance or volunteers at low or no cost. The more "community participation" you get, the better.
Keep in mind that, for steam in particular, you need VERY good organization, proven on paper, and very reliable people with a track record of understanding how to do 'steam power' without mistakes. That is particularly true if you expect to operate over tracks used by passenger services, or run by a government agency. An entity like SEPTA is not going to tolerate having unreliable steam on one of its lines, or trust anyone without strong evidence; that it can be done may be proven by the recent Berkshire move over steam-hating CSX... but that move wasn't done under the locomotive's own steam power, either.
Be prepared to show how any emergency will be promptly managed without endangering an owning or administering company's personnel or riders. Like it or not, that includes diesel protection power and the staff to run it. The protection need not run in the excursion train's consist, but should never be more than a couple of minutes away...
He gave SEPTA as an example of who they'd like to emulate. He never said it would be on SEPTA.
You are right about it not being on SEPTA. Post has been edited.
You are wrong about 'emulating' SEPTA. They would be emulating, or guided by, North Wales Borough, and perhaps get input from New Hope & Ivyland (see the name in my prior post)
I've recently started working with a group that's done it before up in White River Junction, VT. I think that we can make at least the static display happen.
A follow up question, however. Is there anyway to operate passenger excursions over class one excepted track? The track in question is excepted, according to the NH rail plan guide, however the speed listed for passenger trains over excepted is 15mph in the same guide. Some sources say passengers can't use excepted, others say it is ok. What's the answer?
mrrobot I've recently started working with a group that's done it before up in White River Junction, VT. I think that we can make at least the static display happen. A follow up question, however. Is there anyway to operate passenger excursions over class one excepted track? The track in question is excepted, according to the NH rail plan guide, however the speed listed for passenger trains over excepted is 15mph in the same guide. Some sources say passengers can't use excepted, others say it is ok. What's the answer?
(*) opening up crossings to fix defects is ex$pensive. Usually the first thing that bumps you to a lower class of track because of the abuse, accelerated tie decay, rail damage and fouled ballast plus screwed-up drainage.
Your insurance provider most likely going to rain on your parade...Your so called experts saying you can run over excepted track are potential Code 1's looking for a place to happen.
Here is a PDF of the 2012 New Hampshire Rail Plan Guide.
Here is a FRA reference page on state rail plan guidance
Personally, I suspect any reference to "passenger" operation over excepted track" would involve empty equipment or ferry moves. I have seen nothing in the CFR that would allow passengers -- paid or unpaid -- to ride passenger equipment on excepted track. I invite further comment by MC on this.
At least, on the initial go-through, my comment would remain unchanged. Plenty of broken links and other rabbit holes to investigate further.
(Even trying to disconnect an operation from interstate commerce is frought with risks and and won't exempt an operator from all the FRA rules - and the state intra-state commerce regulators will start getting nervous and concerned if anybody tries to go that route....and back to square one - what about the reason that this piece of excepted track even still remains in service??? Whatever it serves still pays for the cost of operation...)
From an engineering or trackman side, nobody is going to sign -off and accept the risk of people travelling over excepted track when the regulation (clear and unambiguous) says don't go there . Shiny toy people and know-it-all operating people are inviting trouble if they try to get outside of their professional responsibilities and expertise*. Lawyers would have a field day lining-up all the fails caused by ignoring the 213 track safety rules just to run a plaything...
(*) Those people are the ones that make your skin crawl, no matter the circumstances and emotion.
This issue appears to be running in two separate threads. They ought to be somehow merged.
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