New York Central System L-1 Mohawks

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New York Central System L-1 Mohawks
Posted by ShroomZed on Friday, November 8, 2019 10:59 PM

Basically I'm looking for as much information on the NYC L-1 Mohawks as I possibly can get. Basically the areas that they were assigned to run, relocations, modifications over the years, stuff like that. If there are any books with good L-1 info, feel free to recommend any to me. 

Also I'm looking for as many pictures of L-1s as I can possibly see. Thanks guys! 

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Posted by BigJim on Saturday, November 9, 2019 7:04 AM

You may do well to go to the NYCHS https://nycshs.org/, scroll way down to find where you can order the book "Know Thy Mohawks". Good Luck!

PS - Be advised that the book is not out yet.

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Posted by ShroomZed on Saturday, November 9, 2019 7:18 AM

BigJim

You may do well to go to the NYCHS https://nycshs.org/, scroll way down to find where you can order the book "Know Thy Mohawks". Good Luck!

PS - Be advised that the book is not out yet.

 

Absolutely perfect. Just the sort of thing I was looking for. Gonna try and get this as soon as I possibly can. Thank you. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:19 AM

You might like this picture, posted on an earlier thread.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:43 AM

I got curious about that link Big Jim posted, so I took a look for myself.

Great site, and a great intro video too!

Too bad about the New York Central, that merger with the PRR was very ill-advised.  What a shame.  What a waste.

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Posted by ShroomZed on Saturday, November 9, 2019 2:26 PM

Just pre-ordered the book. Now I have something to really look foward to. 

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 9, 2019 4:41 PM

daveklepper
You might like this picture, posted on an earlier thread.

He certainly might like it; I certainly like it, but ...

the thread is about L-1 Mohawks, and that is not only an L-3, but the very last example of an L-3.  Any numbers higher, in the 3100 series, would be L-4s.

Those are very, very different locomotives from L-1s.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, November 9, 2019 5:08 PM

Hey, if the man likes Mohawks, and who doesn't, I'm sure he'll enjoy the picture anyway.

I was going to make a crack about "A Mohawk drumming along the Mohawk" but I believe that's the Hudson River, and the old West Shore Line.  [:-^

And as long as I'm thinkin' about it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou6ITVZX9ao  

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 9, 2019 5:59 PM

.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 9, 2019 6:00 PM

Flintlock76
I believe that's the Hudson River, and the old West Shore Line. 

Hudson, yes, but in my opinion it's more likely this is southbound just exiting a station on the Hudson River main.  See the NYC freight-and-passenger signal to the left of the visible track, in the distance?  I'm embarrassed not to know where this might be.

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Posted by BigJim on Sunday, November 10, 2019 6:43 AM

One of my favorite stories is "The Mohawk That Refused To Abdicate and Other Tales" by David P. Morgan and Philip R. Hastings. I first read it in a book of the same name, long since out of print, but, it appeared again in full a few years ago in the special series of "Classic Trains" magazines "In Search of Steam Volume II: 1954-1955". 
A good read if you can find it!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 10, 2019 7:32 AM

BigJim

One of my favorite stories is "The Mohawk That Refused To Abdicate and Other Tales" by David P. Morgan and Philip R. Hastings. I first read it in a book of the same name, long since out of print, but, it appeared again in full a few years ago in the special series of "Classic Trains" magazines "In Search of Steam Volume II: 1954-1955". 
A good read if you can find it!

 

Absolutely!

"The Mohawk That Refused To Abdicate And Other Stories" is an absolute masterpiece!  Well worth haunting train shows and used book dealers to find a copy!

If you do find it, don't be put off by the rather garish 70's era dust jacket, there's gold in those pages! 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 10, 2019 9:53 AM

Overmod, Flintlock is correct.  This was the West Shore, and I was riding the rear southbound from Kingston, after the Ulster and Delaware from Fleischmans, and the Mowhawk is northbound, with the Hudson River on the right and Bear Mountain on the other side in the background.  71+ years ago.

It was posted about two years ago on my Ulster and Delaware - West Shore thread, recently reactivated by a recent picture of Fleischmans, with the tracks still existing/

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 10, 2019 10:09 AM

Thanks David!  I thought I recognized that photo from the Ulster & Delaware thread!

That was an interesting thread.  Up until then I didn't know there was a town in New York called Fleischmans.  I thought Fleischmans was just a brand of cheap whiskey.  Wink

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 10, 2019 11:47 AM

I had my mountains sadly confused -- for some reason I was thinking that visible peak on the 'other side' was Storm King, which was not fun to encounter on 9W, painfully and slowly, over a few times in my youth.

Flintlock76
Up until then I didn't know there was a town in New York called Fleischmans.  I thought Fleischmans was just a brand of cheap whiskey.

Shows how innocent I am, I suppose -- I never realized that All We Railfans have been misspelling the town all these years.  (I think I got into the scam by reading Staufer -- Did NYC get the sign wrong and just keep using it?)  And that it's margarine, and yeast, and bakeries, and very nice HO scale FAs ... but only just now, I see, whiskey.  

Ah, well.  I didn't play too good a game of billiards either.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 10, 2019 1:56 PM

Storm King is on the West Shore side if I remember correctly, and Bear Mountain near Beacon on the East side.  But there is also a Mount Beacon directly adjacent to that town of that name.  Does the incline on it still operate?

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:37 PM

Yes, Storm King on west side.  Mount Beacon was largely 'supported' in its last years by the Day Line tourists (off the Alexander Hamilton) and was closed in '78.  I believe Hudson River Heritage helped get it on the National Register in the early '80s but it was severely vandalized only a short time afterward.  Not sure there's enough tourist draw, even ™ with the fun Metro North ferry from the other side, to restore it fully as either a historic site or operating incline.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 10, 2019 3:48 PM

Bear Mountain is on the West side of the Hudson as well. That could very well be it in the background of the photo, I blew up the photo to the max and the railroad makes a very sharp turn to the left, following the shoreline and coming up on Iona Island maybe?

Directly across the Hudson From Bear Mountain is another peak called Anthony's Nose.  Some rugged country up there, I know, I hiked it many years back.

Mount Beacon's definately on the east side of the Hudson, further north from the Bear Mountain area and directly across from New Windson and Newburg.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, November 11, 2019 3:01 AM

I think you are right about the RR (and the River) making a bend, because the shape of the Mountain seems like Bear Mountain to me.  Mount Beacon has a flatter and longer top, if I m remember correctly.  Appreciate any comment.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, November 11, 2019 8:24 AM

I enjoy these conversations David.  I think you, me, and Overmod miss the Hudson Highlands in a way that's hard to put into words.  Beautiful country up that way, just as scenic as anything else the US has to offer.  

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 11, 2019 9:27 AM

One point about Mount Beacon (in the late Forties) is that I'd think you'd see the track of the inclined railway going up through trees.  Earlier, much of that area would have been deforested -- strange as that may sound to those who first saw it later.  Soldier's Fortune, at the top of the hill in Garrison, was surrounded by large and seemingly old-growth forest in the late Eighties.  Family pictures as late as the early Thirties show cleared land in all directions and an unrestricted view of West Point across the river.

There is no question Mount Beacon and the narrow-gauge railway are on the east side; the Day Line went to the west side, and you'd have to take the ferry across.  (The ferry was, the last time I was there a couple of years ago, still there and officially operated and scheduled by Metro-North)

The last time I went to Bear Mountain, I think we still lived on Manhattan (which would put it before mid-1959).  To get there we crossed the George Washington Bridge, which at the time was still very much one deck, I think of six lanes, with tolls westbound, and 'turned right' although I don't remember if we took the Palisades Parkway (which would only have been open a short time, if at all) -- what I remember is colossal traffic jams on 9W.  All this would certainly argue for Bear Mountain being on the west side.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, November 11, 2019 10:13 AM

I was intrigued so I did some looking.

Found an article about the ruins of the Mount Beacon Incline Railway.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/mount-beacon-incline-railway  

There's a "wiki" article about it as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Beacon_Incline_Railway  

Unfortunately I never rode it myself.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, November 11, 2019 9:43 PM

I rode the Mount Beacon incline in the late 1960s.  As I recall the wheels had double flanges, and the tread between the flanges was wide.  There were gaps in the rails at the mid-point passing siding "switches".  No switch points, rather a series of short offset rails.  The passing track was at a curve, so I am not sure if the cable pulling around the curve had something to do with guiding the car on to the right track.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:30 PM

Okay, here is a wild card. Could it be northbound on the East Shore just sbout to cross Annsville Creek?

There also seems to be a track branching off to the right In the distance as the mains turn left to cross the water.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:52 PM

kgbw49
Okay, here is a wild card. Could it be northbound on the East Shore just sbout to cross Annsville Creek?

I think you missed the post where Dave Klepper, who took the picture, identified the location.

In any case, there is no way you'd have that much water, with that much mountain across it, as a 'northbound' view from the Hudson River Line on the east bank.  None of the views across the 'estuary' are anywhere near that 'spacious' to the east as the train runs across... see this map of the general area with the railroad causeway at bottom left.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 12, 2019 5:58 AM

I cannor recall any rides on the East Bank riding the rear vestibule.  I did once ride in the obs of the Century, but otherwise was in a coach seat, at a dining-car table, or in a roomette orslumbercoach.  But the rear vesribule rides up to Kingston and back are etched in my memory.

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Posted by timz on Thursday, November 14, 2019 6:43 PM

First guess: Mr Klepper's pic of the 3064 was taken in the cut at 41.242N 73.9767W. Can't see another place with that much rock between the track and the river. The problem is that between-track fence, suggesting he's passing a station. There was a Stony Point station, but probably it was south of the cut, on Depot Place south of Tompkins Ave

https://goo.gl/maps/i6xhtGqVN6BpvFTn6

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/ett/images/river-tt-0946.PDF

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, November 14, 2019 7:16 PM

Great stuff Timz, thanks!

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 15, 2019 10:21 AM

timz
First guess: Mr Klepper's pic of the 3064 was taken in the cut at 41.242N 73.9767W. Can't see another place with that much rock between the track and the river.

There should be a Historic Aerials view of the area from the mid-to-late Fifties, close enough that it might match this picture.  

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Posted by 54light15 on Friday, November 15, 2019 7:07 PM

I lived in Poughkeepsie from 1979 to 1995 when I moved to Toronto. I had no clue that there was a funicular railway on Mount Beacon. None at all. The late Pete Seeger lived on Mount Beacon, just out of interest. But I have to say about America's Rhineland, that is as fine a country as any in the USA. You might know that I'm an old car guy and in any direction from Poughkeepsie there were all the finest country roads you could ever want to drive on. That is one thing I miss about the place.

I did once have the opportunity to drive on the Storm King highway that winds around the mountain of that name. Gorgeous views from that but parts of the road collapsed and it's been closed for many years. You can see it from the east side of the river, but you can't drive on it anymore. 

And then there's West Point- You have to do a football game there at some point in your life! The game is almost besides the point with all the high-end tailgate parties there on game days. Marquee tents! Professionally catered! Even live bands- Why bother going to Michie stadium with all that going on? But I digress...

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