That's interesting Becky. Imagine, two countries that hate each others guts, but not so much that it's bad for business!
"There's nought so strange as folks!" as the old British saying goes.
At any rate, there was no animosity between the ACL and the RF&P. The ACL had trackage rights north to the RF&P's Acca Yard where the trains were handed off to the RF&P for their trips further north. The RF&P had trackage rights south over the bridge but as a rule didn't go too far south.
Wayne
You know, I was reading about something like that recently in a book on railroads worldwide. Except in that case the bridge was the border between two hostile countries and cars were shoved just far enough for the other guys to take hold. But God help you if the engineer shoved the cars an inch too far or too short!
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
You're welcome Vince! If you liked that shot of the A-Line bridge over the James, check this one out...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX_A-Line_Bridge#/media/File:Atlantic_coastline_trestle.jpg
Just a historic note, the old RF&P ended in the middle of the bridge, and the ACL began.
One thing the photos don't do is give you an idea of the size of the thing. Trains on the bridge look like N scale models!
And yes, that part of the James River is just as scenic and uncorrupted by developement as it looks.
Wayne... thanks for that. Outstanding bridge, I've gone back to the picture 5 times now... it is a beauty, very grand. Got to put this on my list of things to see in person. Has a strange calming effect, can't explain it, the symmetry of those arches reaching down to the main arch is almost musical.
Probably cast concrete functional when you come down to it. Mr. Truesdale definately spared no expense building his Cutoff, but I'm sure he drew the line somewhere as far as un-needed embellishment was concerned.
While I agree it's a little early for Art Deco, it's a little late for Art Nouveau and is not as ornate as any Nouveau variations. Transitional? Or just cast concrete functional? The hand railings were added much later.
charlie hebdo Overmod Whatever happened to that 13-part (and counting) history of the Cutoff on YouTube a few years ago? Included the 'alternate routes' that were contemplated, some of the details of why the high-speed line around Garrett Mountain was lost, and comments about the cast-concrete architecture then in vogue. Among many, many other things... I really like that cast concrete quasi-Art Deco design.
Overmod Whatever happened to that 13-part (and counting) history of the Cutoff on YouTube a few years ago? Included the 'alternate routes' that were contemplated, some of the details of why the high-speed line around Garrett Mountain was lost, and comments about the cast-concrete architecture then in vogue. Among many, many other things...
Whatever happened to that 13-part (and counting) history of the Cutoff on YouTube a few years ago? Included the 'alternate routes' that were contemplated, some of the details of why the high-speed line around Garrett Mountain was lost, and comments about the cast-concrete architecture then in vogue. Among many, many other things...
I really like that cast concrete quasi-Art Deco design.
It's a masterpiece, that's for certain, but it's actually more of the Art Nouveau school of design, Art Deco wouldn't come along for another 15 or so years after this was built. As far as Art Nouveau is concerned it's rather restrained, this is a good example of a pure Art Nouveau bridge...
https://www.nyc-architecture.com/CP/CP019-19.jpg
You know, in my enthusiasm for the Lackawanna bridge I'd forgotten we've got one of our own here in Richmond, the old RF&P / ACL bridge over the James River, built in 1919 an currently in use by CSX.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/skynoir/3722523962
Thanks!
I thought they were good, and I learned quite a bit from them I hadn't known. It can be fun to 'follow along' to see the actual locations as they currently are.
Dave Klepper may have 'connections' who know when the work on this service will resume at NJT. I'm expecting it to start as single-track with sidings, but with the single track displaced for progressive full double-tracking as 'demand warrants'. And it will be interesting to see if it is extended northwest as I expect it to be, perhaps with Pennsylvania state aid as the benefits of high speed in this relatively congested corridor become more and more evident... and Skytop comes in range of an easy commute to New York.
It's still there Mod-man, here's Part One...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1256Oxdsx4Q
You shouldn't have any trouble finding the rest. And it looks like there's been some additions. Full disclosure, I haven't watched them all. I'll get around to it.
Hey, guess what? The videographer re-did his YouTube video called the "Erie Lackawanna Cutoff Tour 2011" and it's findable now!
Hope everyone enjoys it, well maybe not all the musical selections, and I'll tell you, the sheer amount of fills and bridges are just as impressive as the Paulinskill and Delaware River viaducts are. Mr. Truesdale certainly spared no expense to make the Cutoff happen!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk6ELO0rJAU
Great videos there Mod-man! I love the choice of music for the first vid, it's like we're visiting old Roman ruins or aqueducts.
I hit the books I've got on Lionel artwork. One of them has that 1952 catalog right on the cover, but unfortunately no "whys or wherefores" as to the artist's inspiration. As I said before, we'll probably never know.
By the way, did anyone have any luck finding that "Erie-Lackawanna Cutoff Tour 2011" YouTube slide show I mentioned? Just curious.
Very enjoyable indeed!
BigJimCould this bridge have been the inspiration for the classic Lionel catalog cover art?
I don't think so -- those arches are much longer and flatter than any of the Lackawanna bridges. Probably to get "Lionel" in as 3D spandrels in readable proportion.
I'd also suspect that if Lionel were going to use a Lackawanna prototype, they'd go to Nicholson (y'all probably call it 'Tunkhannock' as I did for years), which has more of the imposing 'overhead' feel in this picture (and much the same technical construction details as at Paulin's Kill, particularly the 'split arch' not observed in the Delaware-bridge viaduct). That bridge has much more pronounced arch shape, and higher spandrels ... it was, in its way, as distinctive as Hell Gate, and I wonder that Lionel didn't have a version of it 'in sections' that could be used for toy-train viaducts.
Here, you'll enjoy this:
It may very well have been Big Jim. Lionel drew a lot of inspiration from the Northeast railroading scene, they were based in New Jersey after all, but there's no way of knowing for certain at this late date.
Could this bridge have been the inspiration for the classic Lionel catalog cover art?
https://www.rareamericana.com/pages/books/3727607/the-lionel-corporation/1952-lionel-train-catalog
.
Not about the Lackawanna Cut-Off, but I found this interesting "urban explorer" video where the videographer takes us on a tour of the twin Manunka Chunk tunnels on the old Lackawanna mainline that was susperseded when the Cut-Off was built.
Eleven minutes long, and quite interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOJ0z-uVLEw
I also found a YouTube video called "Erie Lackawanna Cutoff Tour 2011." If you search for it using that title you'll find it. It's a ten minute slideshow showing the remains of the Cutoff plus surviving structures (stations, towers, LOTS of fills, and so forth). Ten minutes long and very well done, but a bit melancholy.
There's a YouTube link but for the life of me I can't get it to work, I usually don't have trouble with others. Here it is if anyone wants to give it a try...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyubky2iKY Keeps coming up "Video unavailable" but I know that's not the case.
Overmod Flintlock76 When the time comes for NJT to actually reballast and put down track, I think the equipment (and perhaps some of the actual contractors) used to lay the second Springfield track would be highly appropriate. Even if the route were developed in the most conservative stages, and only brought up to full superelevation 'later', it could be relatively quickly and cost-effectively put into practical working again.
Flintlock76
When the time comes for NJT to actually reballast and put down track, I think the equipment (and perhaps some of the actual contractors) used to lay the second Springfield track would be highly appropriate. Even if the route were developed in the most conservative stages, and only brought up to full superelevation 'later', it could be relatively quickly and cost-effectively put into practical working again.
Vegetation removal and grubbing out the roots will be a big cost before laying track and ballast.
Flintlock76The right-of -way is still intact, as far as I know.
I think the state of New Jersey went to almost unbelievable trouble and expense to ensure that. The people to whom the ROW was sold very quickly chopped it up into local-scale possessions and started planning to mine at least one of the substantial fills for its gravel ... then charged NJT through the nose for every parcel. It's been a while since I looked at the numbers, but I think an appreciable part of a billion dollars was eventually spent on getting the whole route pieced together; there may be some parcels that even now aren't 'owned'. And we see that attempts to divert the non-prioritized parts to trails are well-promoted -- wish it were possible to let 'em put in their trails with the understanding they'd be going away with the Stroudsburg or Scranton regional renaissance, but we know very probably how that subsequent action would play out.
deleted
There's been talk for most of the last decade of New Jersey Transit re-laying rails to Stroudsburg over the old Lackawanna. Not only is the Paulinskill Viaduct still there but so is the very similar Lackawanna bridge over the Delaware River. The right-of -way is still intact, as far as I know.
Here's the Delaware River Viaduct...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_River_Viaduct#/media/File:Delaware_River_Viaduct.jpg
Here's some rip-roarin' steam action on the same!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiN_qFWo70
But that's all there's been, just talk. Maybe one of these days.
There's also been talk about using the two freight train a day Susquehanna for commuter service as well, but again, talk, no action.
By the way, I never tried it but the trout fishing in the Paulinskill is supposed to be pretty good! Pretty country out there too, as the video shows.
MiningmanIt's difficult to understand... all of it, The Lackawanna, The Erie. Just so so much gone.
Hell, this isn't just any nostalgia, this is Truesdale's Lackawanna Cutoff. It should never have been deprecated through construction of the Garrett Mountain business, let alone terminally abandoned. And while NJT appears to be walking back some of its earlier scope, I do think we'll see service to Stroudsburg at some point, and perhaps beyond.
For much greater nostalgic fun: there is one of these concrete viaducts that was used on the Old Road the Cutoff largely replaced, that runs close to US route 46 and crosses over the old connection to, I think, L&HR coming off the Bel-Del, close to where 46 used to go under the latter on the bridge taken out by Diane. You would never know the thing was there unless you looked for it, as the Old Road's very substantial girder bridge over 46 just west is now long gone without trace, as is most of any of the ROWs past there.
It isn't really that hard to understand, there was no longer an economic justification for the railroad to continue operating. That being said, that doesn't mean that we have to like it. On the other hand, the one-train-in-each direction suburban operation to Orland Park on the former Wabash has grown into an all-day operation with thirty trips on weekdays and six trips on Saturdays.
It's difficult to understand... all of it, The Lackawanna, The Erie. Just so so much gone.
That is a really cool video. Man, I hate graffiti!
It's the old Lackawanna Paulinskill Viaduct! Built for the ages, it's still around, but with an uncertain future. Here's the story from todays nj.com.
https://www.nj.com/news/2019/11/this-nj-rail-bridge-is-beloved-by-many-but-nobody-knows-what-to-do-with-it.html
There's a neat video goes with the story...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XsOmT7lIiQ
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