To "Penny Trains..."
Thank you Ma'am!
Brother, those other engines are horrors as well. Hey, it beats a scrap yard I guess. Where there's "life" there's hope.
FEF is Four Eight Four
TTT is Two Ten Two
So be it
Paul MilenkovicAfter reading Kratville in the State Historical Society library, I think I know what people mean by a "Nine." What is a "TTT"?
Believe it or not, it follows the convention of the mighty 800s in nomenclature; if you know what FEF stands for, TTT will be no mystery. It's the 'other' large locomotive in Cheyenne, the 5511's official class.
[quote user="Overmod"]
Flintlock76 Ain't gonna happen. OK, I know that's what "they" said about the Big Boy, but the 9000's another story.
It's the TTT that's another story. Probably no one sane could make a case for operating that thing. But a Nine is a different thing entirely.
Nines could run happily up to 60mph, have relatively low inherent augment, and have the sustained power to run trips of adequate capacity.
[quote[I can't see the UP Steam Team being all that enthusiastic about that three-cylinder maintenance headache.[/quote]
Only a major headache if run to make a buck at the lowest possible cost. Rebuilt to documented standards, with use of modern materials in places like the conjugating-gear pins, and with regular attentive maintenance of typical 'steam team' quality, the thing will go almost anywhere -- it's really just a long one-and-a-half Mountain. In the days of the ACE3000 an underfloor lathe to keep the driver tires properly dressed was an exotic machine ... not so today.
But still do 3985 first!
[/quote]
After reading Kratville in the State Historical Society library, I think I know what people mean by a "Nine." What is a "TTT"?
I hadn't thought of the low augment, even with long connecting rods, resulting from 3 cylinders, a crank axle and 120-deg crank angles.
That one of these locomotives is in Pomona, CA in and of itself is a serious problem. I read somewhere that the UP had the hardest time, even with the lateral motion on some of the drivers, getting that thing with its enormous rigid wheelbase over the Cajon Pass to its resting place in Pomona. How are they going to ever get that thing back out of the LA Basin for operation in excursion service?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Flintlock76There IS a 529 at the Northwest Railway Museum in Snoqualmie WA. Maybe that's the one?
Ha ha! Nice detective work! It is indeed the No 529 at NRW!
http://www.rgusrail.com/wanrm.html#upc57529
It's in line with NP L-5 #924:
Canadian Collieries #14:
Ohio Match #4:
Weyerhauser Timber #6:
and Eastern Railway & Lumber #1:
They wouldn't win beauty contests with anybody but railfans but thank the heavens they survive!
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
YEAH! YEAH!
I just get so MAD!
We know with great certainty that the $4,928.57 the Central got for 1290 and 1291 in scrap value did not change their future one bit.
That in 1957 ! Young and Perlman were zealots.
Beg to differ Balt, respectfully, but the NYC wasn't in any financial trouble at the time, far from it.
The "pennies-on-the-pound" scrap value of one or two (or three) old steamers wouldn't have made any effect at all on the bottom line.
I can understand why it happened, the NYC officials were businessmen, not historians, so the historic value of their steam locomotives never entered their minds, any more than a trucking company official would think twice about scrapping an old tractor unit.
The ironic thing is ten years earlier the NYC was crowing loudly about how great their locomotives were. Begs the question "Well if you're so proud of 'em why don't you preserve a few for posterity?"
UP sure didn't have that issue. Neither did the Santa Fe.
Flintlock76You know what impression I got from looking at that long list of donated UP steam? Just how generous the UP was in donating locomotives, and that being the case WHY-THE-HELL couldn't the New York Central save at least one each of a Hudson and a Niagara? Ah, no point in flogging that dead horse again...
One company was profitable - one company wasn't and needed the scrap value.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Not unusual in this age of the diesel for people to refer to locomotives as "units," it's not a mortal sin and akin to calling any paper tissue a "Kleenex" or any copier a "Xerox," even if it's a Canon or a Ricoh.
At any rate, there's no 521 on either that short list or master list provided by RyPN, assuming that's the correct number on the engine to begin with.
There IS a 529 at the Northwest Railway Museum in Snoqualmie WA. Maybe that's the one?
You know what impression I got from looking at that long list of donated UP steam? Just how generous the UP was in donating locomotives, and that being the case WHY-THE-HELL couldn't the New York Central save at least one each of a Hudson and a Niagara? Ah, no point in flogging that dead horse again...
Sorry, thought you actually wanted to know. Will be more advised next time.
Just trying to be conversational and hoping that Penny will expound for our benefit.
Yes, I did check other sources and yes I have a good idea what unit that might be.
Sometimes in a conversation it is just courteous to give others a chance to expound on their contributions.
That’s all I have to say about that, and I am out.
kgbw49Where is this unit stored? Is the number 521 or has a digit worn off?
That is not a unit, it is a locomotive.
RyPN had a thread in 2011
My God, the 521 is a horror.
If I had the money (And don't we all say that? Would that it were the case!) I'd save it myself, I wouldn't wait for the UP to do it.
Mind you, it would wind up with Erie markings. Hey, my money, my rules!
Looks like there's another steamer in front of it. I wonder what that one is?
Penny Trains, what a nifty 2-8-0! Where is this unit stored? Is the number 521 or has a digit worn off?
Penny TrainsHow about this scenario. They get their hands on this:
On the bright side, it'll be easier to push in 'doubleheading' than 4014 was
The only thing I've read is that nothing is sacred and everything will be getting evaluated.
I'm not saying that CMStPnP is wrong, but that statement he cites sure has flown under my radar at least. Haven't seen it in print, mentioned here, or at Railway Preservation News.
I would think such a statement would be big news and have the railfan and historic preservation communities worried, so I'm crossing my fingers you've read a bit into it (And if not, I sure hope the recent bicentennial might be changing the CEO's mind about the value of the steam program).
CMStPnPSorry to rain on the parade here in the thread but the current CEO stated publicly already that while he supported the restoration of 4014 there was going to be an evaluation of the entire Union Pacific Heritage program of restoration of cars and locomotives as he stated in his opinion it is not supporting the business in a meaningful way (bringing in new customers). Instead he stated it seems to be primarily a railfan program that he has problems justifying at budget time to the UP board.
With UP falling into the PSR form of illness there is nothing the Heritage Program can do to drive customers away as the PSR form of operations desires.
I am certain if UP could demonstrate that the Heritage Program drives away loose car customers the program would be fully funded in a heartbeat. PSR's aim is to kill loose car railroading - unit trains origin to destination only, preferablly in private owner railcars.
OvermodBut still do 3985 first!
I'll second that. I think it's the best looking one of the bunch.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
JoeBlow With the Big Boy restoration complete, does the UP have another locomotive in mind to restore?
With the Big Boy restoration complete, does the UP have another locomotive in mind to restore?
Sorry to rain on the parade here in the thread but the current CEO stated publicly already that while he supported the restoration of 4014 there was going to be an evaluation of the entire Union Pacific Heritage program of restoration of cars and locomotives as he stated in his opinion it is not supporting the business in a meaningful way (bringing in new customers). Instead he stated it seems to be primarily a railfan program that he has problems justifying at budget time to the UP board.
At least that is what I thought he said. So after this summer or after they get their return out of the 4014 rebuild. I believe your going to probably see a pause in the UP Steam program. Unless they get a new Chairman.
I am really surprised TRAINS Magazine has not reported on this uncertainty on the horizon yet. Maybe in a few more issues. If you like the UP Steam program my advice would be to try and participate with it this Summer or Fall.
How about this scenario. They get their hands on this:
Restore it and run it around the Cheyenne roundhouse. Call it a "Grand Circle Tour"....
Don't forget, they'd have to pry the 9000 out of the hands of that Pomona park and the historic group that "owns" the thing. UP had their hands full getting the Big Boy out of there.
Again, it's not that I don't WANT it to happen, I love the 9000's, I just can't see it happening.
On top of that, I'm sure the UP's good-will and PR budget only goes so far, and no farther. Steve Lee used to say that going into a board meeting with a "Wouldn't it be cool if we did this..." suggestion would have gotten you thrown out unless you could make a solid business case for it. Which, as Big Steve said, was perfectly understandable.
I created a Straw Poll for this, please vote here:
https://www.strawpoll.me/18246485
"Both of them" is my choice but since it is unrealistic, it is not included in this poll. I love SP's 4-10-2 so I inclined to choose the 9s. : )
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
Flintlock76Ain't gonna happen. OK, I know that's what "they" said about the Big Boy, but the 9000's another story.
7j43k Yer all correct. But I'd still like to see/hear 9000 in operation. Ed
Yer all correct.
But I'd still like to see/hear 9000 in operation.
Ed
Oh, wouldn't we all!
"CHUFF, chuff-chuff! CHUFF, chuff-chuff! CHUFF. chuff-chuff!"
My attempt at reproducing the three-beat exhaust of a 9000. Sorry.
And watching that super-long connecting rod on those six drivers per side going "Up-down-up-down-up-down..."
Ain't gonna happen. OK, I know that's what "they" said about the Big Boy, but the 9000's another story. I can't see the UP Steam Team being all that enthusiastic about that three-cylinder maintanance headache.
They were cool though, in their day!
Perhaps after the Southern California Trip and some well-deserved vacation, they may tackle 4014’s tender. While 3985’s tender is working just fine with 4014, maybe that is a project that fits well in between running and maintaining 844 and 4014. It will be fun to watch what transpires, for sure!
Unless the UP steam crew takes another few years off from running many excursions, I can't even imagine where they'd get the time to tackle another rebuild. They are all going to be sucking wind by the end of the summer with all the work of running around the system. Long, hot days. Lots of them. These guys should get to take their vacation and be a home from time to time...
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Mind you, I don't think UP is in a rush to do 3985 ASAP, and I expect the restoration to be complete all the way up to, but not including, tubes -- to maximize the available time between 1372-day inspection.
But the question was about the next major locomotive to be undertaken as project. That will be 3985.
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