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Why did the Virginian Copy the C&O 2-6-6-6?

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Why did the Virginian Copy the C&O 2-6-6-6?
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 21, 2019 6:34 AM

 Most Forum comments, if my memory is accurate, considered the C&O 2-6-6-6 as unable to use its full firebox-boiler capacity at the speeds at which it was used.  And indeed, the last steam power the C&O bought new were 2-6-6-2s, like that at W. Maryland Scenic.  So, also with coal and mountains, why the Virginian copy?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, March 21, 2019 9:03 AM

David, the only thing I'd guess is the Virginian being a coal-hauling 'road like the C&O most likely saw those 2-6-6-6's in operation and said to themselves "Hey!  Those things are pretty good!  We've got to get some too!"

Sometime's that's all it is.  I'll tell you, I've seen the C&O 2-6-6-6 "Allegheny" at the B&O Museum in Baltimore, and let me tell you, it IS impressive!  Even standing still and cold!  An "iron mountain" is the best description I can think of.  Takes your breath away.

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Posted by WM7471 on Thursday, March 21, 2019 9:17 AM

It's my understanding that during the 1940s the Virginian's managment ranks were increasingly filled with former C & O executives.  In addition to the 2-6-6-6 locomotives, the Virginian also bought near copies of C & O 2-8-4s

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, March 21, 2019 9:26 AM

daveklepper
And indeed, the last steam power the C&O bought new were 2-6-6-2s, like that at W. Maryland Scenic.

Whoa, tiger!  Those 2-6-6-2s were specifically bought to supplement the ones already in service, moving coal from various mines down to where the cars could be consolidated into trains to be moved over the road.  That as a specific purchase of a known-rightsized detail design, updated meaningfully.  (I would also have you remember the last batch of C&O Alleghenies came in 1948, only a year before.)

Virginian, on the other hand, wanted large road power capable of reasonable speed.  To an extent, yes, they went for the line Lima was spinning about their complicated design without recognizing entirely that the horsepower curve didn't match a considerable amount of their actual business traffic, and more specifically I suspect that a design with smaller but better-balanced drivers would have been much better suited to actual Virginian traffic.

Ed King attributes the purchase largely to Frank Beale (who had recently come from C&O) but I have to wonder whether WPB restrictions had a hand in the selection at the time of ordering.  Part of this perhaps involves whether Beale knew of the 'cover-up' regarding the overweight part of the initial design; significantly the Blue Ridges were 18,000-odd lb. down as delivered and the 1948 Allegheny batch followed their detail design,  not the original.

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Posted by BigJim on Friday, March 22, 2019 7:35 AM

If I am not very much mistaken, the VGN "Blue Ridges" were used from Roanoke east where they were better adapted to the easier track profiles. From Roanoke west it was "Electric".

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, March 22, 2019 6:44 PM

Great angle for a locomotive of that size:

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, March 22, 2019 8:14 PM

Great shot you found Becky!

That really gives you an idea of how awesome one of those things are.

I can only imagine what they were like fired up and moving.

Wayne

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:56 AM

Thanks for some very good answers.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:26 AM

Becky's photo of that Allegheny reminds me of a story I've told before, but there's no harm in my telling it again.  I suppose.

Anyway, several years back Lady Firestorm's family got together for Thanksgving at her brother Steve's place in Catonsville MD.  The day after Lady F, myself, and her sister's family went to the B&O Museum's Thanksgiving weekend festivities since it looked like fun (it was!) and it wasn't too far away.

Anyway, we were standing in front of the Allegheny and Lady F's brother-in-law Warren, who's a real car guy, was reading the Allegheny's performance and spec sheet and was quite impressed.  MORE than quite impressed!

"Wow!" he said.  "Why did they ever get rid of these things?"

Well, I told him the whole sad story of railroading being strictly a business of moving "stuff" from Point A to Point B in the most efficient and profitable way possible, and when the diesels came along and promised greater efficiency AND profitablility the steam engines just had to go.

"OK," he said, "That makes sense. But WHY did they get rid of these things?"

Why indeed?  Once steam grabs your imagination it just doesn't let go easily!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:17 PM

Thankfully there are more than a few survivors to amaze future generations!  Big Smile  But of course, we all have long lists of "should have saved at least ones".  Sad

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:51 PM

Overmod

 Ed King attributes the purchase largely to Frank Beale (who had recently come from C&O) but I have to wonder whether WPB restrictions had a hand in the selection at the time of ordering.  Part of this perhaps involves whether Beale knew of the 'cover-up' regarding the overweight part of the initial design; significantly the Blue Ridges were 18,000-odd lb. down as delivered and the 1948 Allegheny batch followed their detail design,  not the original.

The WP got a batch of Espee GS-4/6 clones for a similar reason. In the case of VGN, the WPB most likely told them that they had to use an existing design, with at most some changes in "details".

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, March 25, 2019 6:49 PM

I thought of something a little while ago.  If ever there was a steam locomotive that gave you the impression of a brick wall comming at you, this was it!  Wink

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, March 26, 2019 9:07 AM

Brick wall indeed!  I was trying to think of a descriptive term myself but just couldn't come up with one.  Very good!  Even standing still it looks like it's going at least at yard speed.

I'm reminded of Don Ball's description of a Pennsy K4 coming at him.  He said it reminded him of a clenched fist.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, March 26, 2019 10:07 AM

Describing the VGN 2-6-6-6 as a brick wall coming at you agrees quite nicely with H. Reid's description of the EL-C's as "misshapen bricks".

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, March 26, 2019 9:20 PM

Penny Trains

I thought of something a little while ago.  If ever there was a steam locomotive that gave you the impression of a brick wall comming at you, this was it!  Wink

 

Even the cowcatcher looks like a cinder block.

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