Popcorn into the firebox?

[Firelock76]

And I'll bet she lived to be 105!

Probably before she was born before they knew that stuff was bad for you!

[54light15]

Grandma used to eat it all the time, dripping with molasses, white lead and sprinkled with asbestos.

[Firelock76]

 

At the mention of lard...

Maybe this comment belongs over in the "Classic Toy Trains" Forum, but one of the trains I like to run around my O gauge layout is made up of billboard cars from vintage meat packing houses advertising  "Hams.  Bacon.  LARD!"

It cracks me up, even though I know back in those pre-war days NO respectable kitchen here in the US was without its can of lard!

[Big Bill]

JamesP

Here you go... from yesterday's experiment!  A short video clip of popcorn in the firebox can be seen at 00:35:

 

 

Oh, look! A "Footstrong" turntable!

[CRIP 4376]

There are corn fired boilers and furnaces for heating your house.  If the corn popped, I doubt they would use corn.

Ken Vandevoort

 

[54light15]

Micro-wave popcorn smells horrible! Almost as bad as Mcdonald's french fries or one of those asphalt heaters that the highway departments and roofers use. Hot air popcorn tastes like cardboard. The only way any thinking, sentient being would make popcorn is with cooking oil in a deep pan and instructions are given above. We once had an electric hot oil popper that my mom got for one book of green stamps. Damn thing would heat oil to perfection! You could deep fry potatoes, shrimp, you name it. The oil was just right, every time. Until my sister knocked it on the floor and it was busted forever.

[Deggesty]

RME

Well, if you don't want to trust me, perhaps you would trust a couple of Humphreys.

Around 2:02-2:04.

(The lard and salt were used to flavor the popcorn kernels as they popped, as opposed to dredging the stuff on afterwards when you couldn't get a thin, even layer on there; you will notice the absence of butter in the discussion of seasoning which is a heads-up...)

 

That is similar to the way I popped corn for two of my brothers after they came back from the service in 1946--lard and salt in the bottom of the pot and put it on a burner on the stove; when it seemed the lard is getting hot enough, drop a kernel or two into the pot, put the lid on and shake side to side until the kernel popped--then pour the rest of the corn into the pot, re-cover, and shake until there was only an occasional pop--pour out and enjoy! A little more labor intensive than using a microwave corn popper--but much better! 

[RME]

Well, if you don't want to trust me, perhaps you would trust a couple of Humphreys.

Around 2:02-2:04.

(The lard and salt were used to flavor the popcorn kernels as they popped, as opposed to dredging the stuff on afterwards when you couldn't get a thin, even layer on there; you will notice the absence of butter in the discussion of seasoning which is a heads-up...)

[Penny Trains]

RME

But the Humphrey way (and yes, it's the correct way) is with hot air...

From, Euclid Beach Park is closed for the season, by Amusement Park Books, Inc., Volume 1, copyright 1977, page 18: "The Humphreys had a different way of making popcorn.  Dudley related that '...we used to put our corn into the hot kettle, mix the lard and salt right with it, cover the lid, and stir it up with a big spoon.  That kept all the sweetness of the corn in the popped kernel and seasoned it at the same time.'"

[Firelock76]

You know, don't let anyone tell you Basset Hounds are stupid.  We had three at one time, Bruno, Lonzo, and Darla, and whenever they saw me pull the hot air popcorn popper out of the cabinet they came rumbling into the kitchen to catch the "fliers."

They KNEW what was coming!

Our current, Ginger, hasn't seen the popper in action yet, but I'm sure she'll catch on just as quickly.

[Deggesty]

RME

 

 

Penny Trains

I like my corn popped the Humphrey way.

 

 

To say nothing of the taffy.  But the Humphrey way (and yes, it's the correct way) is with hot air...

 

 

Let's send a carload or two to Congress and to each state house--maybe we can get something useful from them? 

[RME]

Penny Trains

I like my corn popped the Humphrey way.

To say nothing of the taffy.  But the Humphrey way (and yes, it's the correct way) is with hot air...

 

[Penny Trains]

Firelock76

Hubert Humphrey was a popcorn expert? Who knew?

See?  You learn something new about presidential history every day! 

D.S. Humphrey, founder of the Humphrey Popcorn Company.  His popcorn method was so popular he earned enough money to buy Euclid Beach Park.

[Firelock76]

Penny Trains

I like my corn popped the Humphrey way.

 

Hubert Humphrey was a popcorn expert?  Who knew?

[Penny Trains]

I like my corn popped the Humphrey way.

[RME]

Penny Trains

Well there you have it sports fans! Oil in a pan is still the best way to pop corn!

Au contraire, ma soeur -- hot air is the gold standard for getting all the kernels to go without some of them misfiring, scorching, or being soggy with ... oil.  That is what made the 'corn in the smokebox' approach work as well as it did, and in part why the kernels that were ejected were edible. 

Popcorn on the shovel, with or without oil for heat transfer, would suffer from the same trouble you'd get with Jiffy-Pop if you removed the foil first.  Kind of like a stoker with the steam jets built randomly into the coal ... if you think about it a bit, not a good idea.  And most kinds of 'covering' to keep the popcorn co-located with the shovel won't allow proper popping to the state you want.

You could adapt the Jiffy-Pop cover approach to a shovel, with a little care, and it would work nicely if the attach points, the sealing, and the venting were arranged right.  But you'll still have scorching on the bottom, and it will be slow compared to popping in hot air.  What you need is a device that takes a tap of hot gas (or even air from a good combustion-air preheater) and arranges to levitate or agitate the kernels in the stream, the way the commercial hot-air poppers do.  This might be arranged quite nicely with a small fan on one of Porta's secondary-air vents or a duct that could be inserted through a partially-ajar firedoor...

[JamesP]

BaltACD

 

What if is was left on the coal scuttle rather than just dumped in the fire?

 

 

I suspect if it was left on the scoop, it would have a better chance to pop.  Especially if one was to put a pool of steam oil on the scoop first...

[BaltACD]

JamesP

Here you go... from yesterday's experiment!  A short video clip of popcorn in the firebox can be seen at 00:35:

What if is was left on the coal scuttle rather than just dumped in the fire?

[JamesP]

Here you go... from yesterday's experiment!  A short video clip of popcorn in the firebox can be seen at 00:35:

[Penny Trains]

Well there you have it sports fans!  Oil in a pan is still the best way to pop corn! 

[JamesP]

Pops lift at 125 psi on this engine.  By the way, I guess I should mention that the locomotive was stationary during the popcorn test, with light blower - enough to keep the smoke inside the firebox, but not so much that it sucked cold air into the flues.  I do have video, but it is as boring as it sounds.  However, it may be part of my next Youtube video of running trains... maybe I'll get it done this weekend! 

[Paul of Covington]

JamesP

Anyone else give this experiment a try yet?

  OK, everybody out there that's running coal-fired live steam, give it a try.

   JamesP, I'm just curious: how much boiler pressure do you run with?

[JamesP]

Getting back to the OP's original question of what happens when you put popcorn into a firebox of a steam locomotive:  Today, I had my coal burning 12" gauge steam locomotive fired up.  I tried 3 different shovels of popcorn in it (Orville Redenbacher Original) and got the same result 3 times... not a single kernal popped.  It simply went up in flames.  We know that popcorn "pops" because the heat causes the moisture in the kernal to turn into steam and expand until it ruptures the outer layer.  My theory is that the coal fire is so hot, it immediately burns through the outer layer before the moisture has a chance to expand into steam.  No containment of steam by the outer layer, no "pop".  I observed that there was moisture sizzling on the fire for a few seconds after the popcorn was dumped in, but it quickly evaporated and the rest of the kernal consumed in the fire.  It's just too much heat, applied too quickly.  Anyone else give this experiment a try yet?

[Blackcloud 5229]

Back in the 1950's all freight equipment used the AB brake valve which utilized a split air tank one side was for the service brake and both sides came into play when the brake was thrown into emergency to release the brake manually you pulled a rod attached to the AB valve which drained both sides completley to release the air brake so when a trian of 100 cars was made up and the feed valve on the brake stand was set to 80 pounds it would take a good 20 minutes or more to pump up the air enough to test the train brake as you had a lot of air tanks to fill and you couldn't test the air untill you had 65 pounds of air on the buggy gauge. then the engineer could make a service brake application of 15 pounds to set the brake once the carnockers (at the originating yard ) inspected every car they would give you the release signal and after verifying they released the ok on the brakes and remove the blue flag. Nowadays when you pull the rod to release the brake on aa ABD equiped freight car they have whats called a quick release a quick jerk on the rod and the brake startes to release WITHOUT draining the air tanks this means a much shorter charging time to make a brake test as not all the cars air tanks are empty.

 

----------------

 

 

Jim

[Blackcloud 5229]

[quote user="RME"] working temperature in a coal or oil fired steam locomotive firebox averages 2500 degrees F any popcorn would not pop but be totally consumed in a few secounds. back in the 70's I was working as a hostler at Orbisonia, Pa East Broad top RR found an old piece of steel boilerplate in the shop with a hole in one end and an old timer who used to work at the shop told me what it was for. He showed up about midnight the following night at my invitation and brought more grocieries thean I had brought I had the plate inside the firebox for about two hours at that point used the hook and hole to retrieve it set it on the deck and he said I got this big blob of butter onions carrots celery steak I provided about 5 pounds ( I was young then) I then became aware of other men outside the cab and after talking with them sat down to the best meal I'd had in months with four former EBT employes on a beautiful moonlit night one of the guys showed up with a picnic table in the back of his truck and sheepishly admitted my knees won't hurt if i use the table too bad.  I wish I had a recorder because the stories I heard that night were to a 20 year old were like being thrown back in time. I complained about the coal we burned 95% slack ( fines aka powder ) the guys laughed at me and one said thats all we ever got for the power house or the engines. I learned then and there it was called "mine run" meaning what they couldn't sell.  I then learned on the spot how to fire with slack coal and damn if it didn't  make a difference and yes the coal came out of EBT owned and operated coal mines. Even in 1970!!

I appologize as I just realized I sorta drifted off topic. Starnge how the mind works when answering a simple question up pops another memmory.

Ahh the good ole days

Jim

[Dr D]

NDG

Thanks for the great picture of a "Westinghouse Cross Compound Compressor" I am guessing that is you standing in the picture.  Your comments make me wonder if they still supply repair parts for these units?

------------------------------

Well I guess its time to introduce the subject as "pneumatics" which is the operation of machinery by air pressure.  Railroad train brakes were one of the first successful and modern uses of high power air pressure for the everyday operation of railroad equipment.  The marvel of air operated train brakes at the end of the 19th century was considered a miraculous use of modern science in that age of the Industrial Revolution. 

Today I wonder if modern Americans have any appreciation for the use of safe modern pneumatic air operated appliances that are so common in our everyday life?  So WHAT IS AIR PRESSURE anyway?  That"s right Virginia - modern speeding trains today are still stopped by air!

---------------------

Air tools are the mechanics friend for working on the automobile - air wrenches, air chisels - air hammers.  Air tools are used today to break up the concrete in city streets by use of the guy in a hard hat driving the belly bouncing "jack hammer" of modern road construction.  Air is also used to lift your car in the repair shop by the automotive vehicle hoist so repairs can be done underneath it. 

Air pressure is really the science of the engineering of fluid power.  Which can be done in two ways by the use of "hydraulics" through the application of liquid pressure, or though the use of "pneumatics" by application of air pressure. 

Of these two systems "pneumatics" the engineering of air pressure offers its advantages of simplicity - reliability - safety. 

Air operated machinery is simple in design - look at a railroad freight car - every car has to work with every other car and they all have to have a simple and easily repairable and operable braking system - simplicity!

Air operated machinery is reliable - it functions well even when not everything is perfect in the way of sealing the pressure and the natural cushioning of the air prevents the systems from pounding themselves to pieces with shock.  Air pressure can be stored in tanks to operate even if the machinery that powers it breaks down.  Train brakes will operate even without the locomotive being operable - reliable!

Air operated machinery is safe - it has a proven track record of operating continuously across time as it was designed to operate.  Train brakes that operate safely time after time, no matter how many cars are coupled together, or how worn out they are, and how old they are - and are easy to use by the crew - safety!

-----------------

Compressed air is supplied by storage of air in a tank or reservoir and also by an air compressor.  The "Westinghouse Cross Compound Compressor" used on steam locomotives was remarkable.  Because it was a COMPOUND compressor it was basically two single stage compressors mounted side by side feeding air and steam from one cylinder set to the other set. 

This ment it was a COMPOUND OPERATION BY STEAM AT THE SAME TIME a COMPOUND SUPPLY OF AIR!

A HIGH steam pressure cylinder drove an air compressor cylinder of LOW air pressure - which steam - fed into a LOW pressure steam cylinder that at the same time upped the air pressure sent into a HIGH pressure cylinder.  The steam was used up in two stages and the air pressure went up in two stages at the same time.   

Also these two systems were mounted side by side making one machine and as the steam was used up twice in the two cylinders the air pressure doubled up at the same time in the two air cylinders. 

Highly efficient and extremely compact was the name of the Westinghouse system!  AND MORE - the first set of compressor cylinders  - well they automatically controlled the second of compressor cylinders!  This in effect DOUBLE STAGED the compressor!

FURTHER it was turned on by the engine crew and LEFT ON so that the compressor would pump up the train brake air pressure whenever it needed to.  AND the compressors would run at FULL POWER and then suddenly turn themselves OFF when the pressure got up to max.  SIMPLE RELIABLE SAFE!  Automation in 1910!  UNbelievable UNthinkable!

--------------------------- 

Generally every steam locomotive of every railroad had two of the "Westinghouse Cross Compound Compressors" giving tremendous, reliable train braking and safety on the railroads of America.

---------------

Westinghouse train brakes were a vast improvement over the manual brakes of the post American Civil War generation. 

Before air brakes were invented every caboose on every train had a crew of "brakemen" whose job it was to run across the top of every car on the train and set the brake wheels of each car one by one - by hand.  In rain, snow and sunshine the "brake crew" would go to work scurrying across the tops of the car to slow down the train when the engineer signaled EMERGENCY on the whistle.

Pneumatic operated train brakes are the first modern appliances invented for the American Railroads and they are still here with us today.  Simple Safe and Reliable.

---------------------

Doc   

 

[NDG]

 

The last steam locomotive I was in charge of had a Compound Pump and it exhausted into the smoke box. It's exhaust WOULD affect the oil fire if set way low to prevent the pops from lifting. Crosswind would affect fire, also, even put it out if engine and bricks cool on spot.

The actual blower here was a ring of 1 inch pipe just larger than the exhaust nozzle in smoke box and just above, with tiny holes drilled on top around circle for steam from line and valve next to Fireman in cab, the blower ejecting steam up thru Petticoat Pipe and stack = draft.

When cleaning tubes or firebox, engine cold, there was an IR 4 cyl magneto spark engine, crank start, coupled to 2 cyl compressor @ 90 PSI which could be used thru blower to cause draft to pull soot thru.

Same could be used for Firing Up in lieu of steam thru burner.

90 PSI of air would move locomotive, cold. After one almost-disaster and fast movement of Johnson Bar against boiler water slosh and tender, too, I ALWAYS ran Engine air pump ON Air for Engine Brakes.

One problem was the steam side was definitely over lubricated, as it was easier, and less costly to 'waste' oil rather than wear out the rings and whatever = overhaul, much heavy labour, Engine downtime and costs.  The Air Side was lubricated with a different oil from Steam Valve oil. The piston rods had lubrication, too, thru oil-soaked wipers as they went up and down.  Valve oil fed from drip lubricator w/glass and oil fed upward into steam line below stop valve on Turret in Cab by Fireman.

The air filter on some locomotive pumps was stenciled 'Keep Flame Away' as torches were used to inspect locomotives, the flame being used to detect pressure or vacuum leaks by being drawn towards or away from the leak, depending. If the flame was inhaled in could cause combustion. The filter contained what seemed to be hair of some sort.

 

At the mine they had several compressors for air underground, drilling and such. Some were old circa 1900, Ingersoll-Rand Compound w/1010 HP Electric Motor, the compressors 'loaded' in stages, causing them to 'lope' and move on their foundations. About 48 inch cyl on low pressure side and intercooler btwn.

Anyway, there were two other compressors, high speed vertical, looking somewhat similar to an Marine Engine in a ship. These would heat up if air demand high. Drillers would leave air valves open to clear dust and gasses ( This mine had 'Hot Muck'. Google it. ) using LOTS of air at 110 PSI. The exhaust manifolds would glow, burn off paint, Green, as oil burned inside.

There was another compressor, rope-driven from a Pelton Wheel on a 36 inch wood stave pipe from the dam, no longer used, but still in place to retain Water Rights. This Compressor once was a Tandem, with Steam Cylinders w/ valve gear beyond the Compressor Cylinders on same piston rods so pump could be run on steam if water low in creek.

The Stationary Engineer had a Steam Ticket, as there was a GE Electric boiler on hand for Concentrator Steam. He also tended two Motor Generator sets for trolley voltage underground. At another location there was a Yarrow-type3-drum Gas fired boiler for production steam which had 100,000 gallon oil tank if change to oil needed, and there was also also 1952 Chevrolet Fire Truck for plant fire protection.)

Now an over lubricated pump spewed oil and condensate with it's exhaust splattering all over the jacket up the stack even with cylinder drains open warming up.

This made a MESS and oil droplets could flow back over Engine, Tender and Train in wind of motion.  If valve oil got on clothing, it was toast = mad paying customers.

The exhaust could not be routed to tender water, as oil would collect and be carried into boiler by Injector/Pump, a No No. It was Valve Oil and meant for high temperatures.

The oil for the Superheated engine was different than that for the Saturated one.

Not an Authority, but, some feedwater systems had an oil separator in tender which 'emptied itself' as oil lighter than water, every time the Engine took water. This oil coming from locomotive cylinders w/exhaust steam for FWH.

Some CNR engines had a CONDENSER btwn the Tender trucks for Stoker Exhaust, and it could be seen dribbling as engine rolled along.  Other stokers exhausted behind coal bunker. (  Note change of topic from air pumps to stoker engines, here. A new thread? )

I saw a video of a SP Cab Forward on an excursion, it's air pumps on smoke box front, and they were exhausting directly into the air, huge tender behind smoke box it probably already sticky from it's own cargo of oil.

Those videos from China w/engines and air dumps are always exhausting direct as Air Dump EAT air thru leaks ( Been there, done that Bank Widening for CWR aeons ago. The other job was pulling a Ballast Sled on cables and reballasting from Longditudinal hoppers w/cranks for doors and a cab-behind-wings Jordan Spreader. )

The third Engine had a single pump and it panted along with stronger exhaust as 'Simple' not affecting the fire, as coal.

There was a vertical boiler also, used for Shop Steam and it was used to fill locomotive boilers after Wash Out with their own injectors to provide Warm water for boiler inspections and quicker Firing Up, preventing stress.

That boiler was from a Logging Donkey c. 1918 and was rated for 130 HP.

Just what I observed.

One trip, a student Fireman soaked his gloves taking water. He put them on top of Firedoor to dry. Motion caused them to fall and get SUCKED into hole for Sanding Out. He rushed to the cab door looking to see if they came out the Stack.. They did not.

Thank You.

 

 

   

[Firelock76]

And there were steam locomotives in South Africa that used fans for draft.  These were the locomotives with the steam condensing tenders that were used in very arid areas of the country.

[Big Bill]

STEAM ENGINE ANATOMY 101 -

"There is no "mechanical blower", with a "blower fan" and "blower motor" on a railroad steam locomotive in the traditional sense! 

Its just a valve and nozzle that blows some steam up the smokestack to create a draft!  -  called a blower because it blows air."

 

Actually, many steam locos in the Soviet era (Uncle Joe's era, to be more precise) did use blower motors and fans, because that's the way Stalin liked it.

And no one bothered to tell Joe that there was a better way, for reasons that should be obvious.