More good news! It seems that this decade is becoming one of the largest for steam revival to date!
http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/article58872213.html
According to the group, upon insection there are NO SIGNIFIGANT ISSUES. The rumors about a bad firebox, shot spring rigging, ect. are for the most part simply not true!
This just keeps getting better!
S. Connor,
The Chesapeake & Ohio 2716 Kanawha is also known as aka (Berkshire) a 2-8-4 wheel arrangement. C&O 2716 is also a LIMA late model "Super Power" Berkshire of a high efficiency design patterned after the first New York Central System A1 "Berkshire" NYC 1.
C&O 2716 was very similar to those engines produced by the two other railroads who were part of a the Van Sweringen railroad family. These were the Nickel Plate Railroad, and the Pere Marquette Railroad.
Actually, C&O 2700 locomotives were copied by the Van Sweringen "Advisory Mechanical Committee" from the highly successful Nickel Plate 750 class engines and the Pere Marquette 1200 class engines. The C&O 2700 Kanawaha 2-8-4's were the last of these engines and likely the best of the three designs.
C&O 2716 is therefore sister to surviving Nickel Plate Railroad engines 755, 757, 759, 763, 765 and 779, and also sister to surviving Pere Marquette Railroad engines 1223, and 1225. Two of these other engines are in operating condition, these are NKP 765 and PM 1225.
C&O 2716 was one of 90 locomotives delivered by LIMA and AMERICAN the largest produced of all three designs. They were well loved by the railroad and a record number of them - thirteen were given by Chesapeake & Ohio for for preservation and display. Unfortunately one of these so preserved engines was so vandalized that it was scrapped. There were also four engines stored by C&O at Russel, KY in the scrap line as late as the 1970's where I saw them. Unfortunately of these 4 two were destroyed very late at a time when all steam should have been preserved. Two of these fine machines were donated, however.
It is truely remarkable that three operating Van Sweringen 2-8-4 "Berkshire" locomotives survived to operate if C&O 2716 is further restored. PM 1225, NKP 765 and C&O 2716 - amazing. There is also word that C&O 2789 is likely undergoing some form of restoration.
-----------------------
The first Berkshire was built by the William Woodward design team of LIMA Locomotive Works for the New York Central System - the famous A1. The last Berkshire built was done by AMERICAN Locomotive works for the New York Central Railroad - the A2 - and was designed by Paul Kiefer NYC head of steam design. It is highly likely that this engine - the A2 advanced the 2-8-4 "Berkshire" concept to its highest level of achievement. The A2 was so entirely ignored by the New York Central Lines railroad community that it's potential will never be known. Which is a remarkable thing considering how outstandingly successful the C&O, NKP and PM engines were. The railroad mangament was changing under the leadership of Robert R Young and word was out "steam is done!"
-------------------------
What is fairly remarkable to my mind is that of all the steam locomotives in America - I am talking many 4-8-4 "Northern," 4-6-4 "Hudson" and 4-6-2 "Pacific's"! - I am talking about famous engines like the Pennsy 6-8-6 turbine, the 4-4-4 Duplex and the 4-4-6-4 Duplex. I'm talking about 4-8-2 "Mountains" and 2-10-4 "Texas" types. I'm talking about 2-8-8-2 articulateds and 2-6-6-4 articulateds and 2-8-8-4 types - - - - of all these. There are more of these Van Sweringen "Berkshires" left than almost any locomotives. Pretty amazing considering how humble a freight power they were. Over 21 preserved engines!
New York Central, Pennsylvania, Union Pacific, Santa Fe, Grand Trunk, Southern, Norfolk and Western - none of these railroads had any if even a few of the 2-8-4 "Berkshire." Surely a remarkably performing and overlooked freight engine!
- Just my opinion -
Doc
Doc, what were the other locos being stored.
Robert -
Ok here's the story. I was 21 years old and my dad an attorney in Detroit was a real railroad fan. As a troop train commander he rode the cab of the L&N steam locomotive on a troop movement headed to the Pacific in WWII and grew up in the 1930's near the Grand Trunk Western rail yard in Royal Oak, MI.
At any rate he took one of those early spring weekend vacations people in Detroit do - go south to Kentucky and see the springtime come early. So we drove the Chrysler New Yorker down I-75 and stayed near the Ohio River probably near Russell, Kentucky. Dad liked passenger trains especially, so we would go along the Ohio River to the towns up and down the line and wait for the name C&O trains to go thru the local stations and or catch them running down the 4 track main line. I still have some nice photos of the FFV or Sportsman whatever was running on that evening going west from Washinton DC.
Next morning I think I took the Chrysler and drove around the Russell area looking over the C&O yard. C&O had a YMCA for its employees to lay over in at Russell. Behind the YMCA was a old engine terminal with coal tower still standing and a Diesel Engine Repair Shop with turntable. Behind the shop was the line of Chesapeake and Ohio steam still on the property.
I was overwhelmed to say the least. To find one engine here or there was a miracle in 1970. To find an entire fleet of locomotives was just astounding.
You have to remember that in 1970 there was NO SECURITY anywhere. I toured the diesel shop just by going up to some guy and asking questions. I asked about the steam locomotives behind the shop and was told that "was a storage track" for company locomotives. I asked if I could climb them for photos and was told shure "knock yourself out!" And "Have a good time."
There was C&O 1604 the mighty 2-6-6-6 "Allegheny" with drive rods removed - there was C&O 611/614 the roller bearing equipped "Northern" passenger hauler 4-8-4. I said to myself, "how could this engine of all the locomotives I had ever seen - be sitting her just rusting?" There were four 2-8-4 "Berkshires." And one outstanding huge 2-8-2 "Mikado" a mighty freight hog from an entirely earlier generation of steam - it had that Appalachain look that only Pennsylvania Railroad or C&O could design into an engine.
I took some great black and white photos from every angle including on top of the boilers - tenders etc. I toured each engine from the ground to the cab. Got group shots of the whole lineup and - rusting in forlorn magnificence!
I patted myself on the back for finally! - yes finally! - finding American steam on its original property in force - albeit a bit rusted - missing most collectable gauges number boards and builders plates. The history of the Chesapeake & Ohio spoke to me from the ground up! From the rail yard up! On a spring day - when I thought they were all gone!
- It was the kind of thing inquisitive youth stumbles upon unknowingly and somehow knows the meaning of it all!
- great moment in the least and great to still share with you!
Even though they are virtually identical in specifications, I always thought the C&O Kanawhas looked more "massive" than the Nickel Plate and Pere Marquette Berkshires. They had the huge sand dome in front of the steam dome, and the tender with 30 tons of coal seemed to be just a hair taller than the NKP and PM models. Then there was the flat shield in front of the air pumps and the full round face of the smokebox with the centered number plate - I know it is all "optical illusion", but they just look like massive machines.
C&O Kanawha...
NKP Berkshire...
Pere Marquette Berkshire...
Until the WWII years, the Western-most Berkshires were 15 Baldwin models built for the Sante Fe. They were used mainly east of Kansas City. In WWII, the Santa Fe and Southern Pacific each bought several used Boston & Maine Berkshires with the hooded feedwater heater and proceeded to modify them heavily to look more like their own locomotives...
Sante Fe original Baldwin-built 4101 Class...
Sante Fe Berkshire "War Baby" modified B&M unit...
Southern Pacific Berkshire "War Baby" modified B&M unit...
Some additional lesser known Berkshires...
L&N Big Emma - equally at home on passenger trains or coal drags...
Original Norfolk Southern Berkshire...lightest of the bunch...
Detroit, Toledo & Ironton Berkshire...
Missouri Pacific Berkshire with 63" drivers...later rebuilt into 75" drivered 4-8-4 Northern...
Missouri Pacific former Berkshire converted to 75" drivered Northern...one boiler course added between smokebox and front sand dome...
Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac Berkshire...
Virginian Berkshire - Kanawha clone...
Wheeling & Lake Erie Berkshire - later a Nickel Plate "800"...one of the few with Boxpok drivers...
One that probably should have been a Berkshire - Great Northern O-8 Mikado with 69" drivers and enormous firebox on a single axle trailer truck...heaviest Mikados ever built with a whopping 77,793 lbs of tractive effort...
And finally, for comparison purposes, back to C&O Kanawha 2776...
The only real visual difference that I can spot between the NKP and C&O 2-8-4's is the headlight location. This comes from a longtime diesel spotter who is oriented to spotting subtle differences.
The L&N M-1's were designed to move lots of coal and were not systemwide locomotives. They may have served as backup passenger power but they were not intended for dual service.
The two biggest differnences are the enormous sand dome located in front of the steam dome on the Kanawha, and the full shield across the pilot in front of the air pumps when compared to an NKP or PM Berkshire.
As to L&N Big Emmas, a significant number were delivered with steam train lines specifically for passenger service, but yes, their primary role was to haul 8,000 ton cuts of coal.
Big Emma on a coal drag...
Big Emma on time freight...
Big Emma on passenger - 1960-1963 were delivered with steam train lines and pulled passenger trains between Cincinnati, OH and Corbin, KY during WWII and after - they did haul varnish, as did the C&O Kanawhas on the Ashland-Lexington line in particular...
I agree. I think the Kanawhas look a little more "massive" compaired to their NKP and PM counterparts. Look also to the Chesapeake & Ohio's L-2 Hudsons and J-3 Greenbriars. These were also some of the largest in their classes. The NKP Berks, when later fitted with the Mars lamp, has the look of speed...NKP "High Speed Service". The Kanawhas...speed with strength.
"Shovel all the coal in, gotta keep 'em rolling".....John.
Thanks doc, brings back some old memories as well. As a kid we used to roam the abandoned portion of the standard slag quarry in Marblehead Ohio. They had a large loading operation and it look like when they abandoned that section of the quarry they just walked away from it. Left behind a large brown steam crane and in their offices all of their car loading books with car numbers and cargos. Quite a discovery for a 10 year old. Any ways just memories of the old lake side and Marblehead railroad.
WAs the track to the quarry still in place? Or any railroad artifacts still on the RoW? Collect anything?
At the time the the m& l was abandoned but the line was being run as needed by standard slag. The branch line to the breaker and loader was out of service almost 10 years, the rails and ties still in place. Lots of souvenirs from the line including fish plates, spikes books and stuff from the steam crane.
A few times during the summer you would see standard slags switcher's pulling a string of gondolas filled with rip rack from lakeside to Danbury where their was a connection with the PC. At Danbury their was a station, a large flat yard and a wye. A neat little railroad with a rich past but no future.
The C&O Kanawha that is in Richmond, Va. was moved from the park it was in and I understand is being fixed up but not for operation. The one that is in Newport News, Va. in Hunnington Park near the Mariners Museum is also being relocated and similarly fixed up. I read a while back that when the C&O "donated" all these engines, they were actually fully operable and subject to recall at least at first.
Richmond's C&O Kanawha is now located at the Science Museum of Virginia on West Broad Street, it was the old RF&P station now repurposed.
The Kanawha's located down where the old passenger loading platforms are and had been cosmetically restored. Looks pretty good too. Good fencing all around the area so vandals can't get at it.
It's far from operable at this point, although to my untrained eye it looks like it's "all there," if you know what I mean.
S. Connor More good news! It seems that this decade is becoming one of the largest for steam revival to date! http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/article58872213.html According to the group, upon insection there are NO SIGNIFIGANT ISSUES. The rumors about a bad firebox, shot spring rigging, ect. are for the most part simply not true! This just keeps getting better!
in the april 2015 issue, preservation section by justin franz has some informantion about the locomotive in it.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.