Been meaning to comment on this hread since visiting WDW in April....
I took part in the backshop tour at WDW in early April, may want to do the same for Disneyland, have ridden the DLRR many times over he last 50+ years. As for the WDW, the hostess for our tour was Morgan, who despite her not having much of any knowledge of RR's and trains before joining WDW, has developed a good understanding of the ins and outs of running a steam locomotive. The tour was both interesting and informative.
Riding the WDW line was a different experience than riding the DL line, quite a bit more nature at WDW. OTOH, the DL line has the Grand Canyon diorama, which while it does look a bit primitive compared to modern diorama, does bring a lot of childhood memories.
One other comment wrt DL vs WDW - The "Pirates of the Carribean" ride at WDW doesn't hold a candle to the original, the "trip through the Bayou" at the beginnng of the DL version sets the mood for the rest of the ride.
http://micechat.com/128561-unknown-engineer-disneyland-railroad/
Thechief66 What the heck happened to the title of this thread? I started it as Disney's RR Now it shows up as Disney's RR ???
What the heck happened to the title of this thread? I started it as Disney's RR Now it shows up as Disney's RR ???
I kinda remember seeing this kind of thing before. A simple punctuation mark, in this case, the apostophe, gets converted into a jumble of secret code. Why?...
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
I haven't forgotten that 1897 Baldwin, John, and your right, I saw the "Trains" article several months ago and it's a stunner!
What I was trying to do was list the oldest 19th Century steamers still in regular use. As nice as that Baldwin is it doesn't make the cut as far as longevity compared to the others.,
Hey Firelock76! Don't forget the REAL 1897 Baldwin 4-4-0 restored to operating condition up in Dearborn. Now that's an absolute beauty!
Interesting. I've read it was Henry Ford that did the modifications to the locomotive as he wanted to reproduce a Civil War era train as a birthday tribute for his friend Thomas Edison, Edison having been a "news butcher" as a boy in the 1860's. Ford spared no expense to make it happen.
I've seen YouTube video of the locomotive and whoever modified it did a helluva job, it looks like it always was a 4-4-0. Hard to believe it wasn't always in that configuration. Runs beautifully too.
Just to add to the list of oldies capable of running, there's the "William Mason" at the B&O Railroad Museum (1856), although they only trot that one out on special occasions, and there's the "John Bull" at the Smithsonian (1831) which was run on its 150th anniversary in 1981 but hasn't run since. I'd assume it's still capable of running, but I may be assuming too much.
If my memory serves me correctly, there was an article in TRAINS some years back related to the Manchester locomotive. Apparently, it was built as an 0-4-0 and served as a plant switcher. Henry Ford was determined to obtain a Mason 4-4-0 when he was opening his museum but such creatures were already extinct. It was assumed that the plant switcher was modified to a 4-4-0 and passed off to Ford as a Mason locomotive.
Thank you kgbw49! Aw shucks, now I'm blushing. Every once in a while I manage a bit of profundity in spite of myself.
I did a little checking and it looks like the absolute champs as far as 19th Century steam locomotives in regular service here in the US are at the Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan, a 0-6-4 built by Mason in 1873 and a 4-4-0 built by Manchester in 1876. Both are standard gauge, both pull trains around the premises.
Unbelieveable.
Very well said, Mr. Firelock76! Very well said indeed!
I know just what you're saying, Big Boy Forever. It seems to me that those who have changed the world, REALLY changed it, are those who never really set out to do so. Think Edison, Ford, Bill Gates, Johann Guttenberg, and so on. Those men never set out to change the world, they just thought if they could come up with some useful inventions people would want to buy them and they could make a little money selling them. Those who DID try to change the world into something that suited their own personal tastes left hell and chaos in their wake. Think Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Tojo, Mussolini, and so on.
OK, there was One who set out to change the world and did a pretty good job at it, but He's the exception that doesn't make the rule.
Went to Disneyland Anaheim a couple years ago during Christmas season.
Aside from all the obvious and unique attractions and rides, I felt that somehow Disneyland the place, and seeing the joy on the adults and kids faces, gives one the feeling of what is great about the USA, and the gift to the world that this country is. No doubt, it had a lot to do with the man himself, Walt Disney. There is an apartment above the firehouse where Walt Disney and his family would stay when at the park. I felt honored to be standing there under the window where he would look out at the park and see all the happy people.
This is certainly in stark contrast to what forces you see in the world that are trying to gain dominance and impose tyranny;----- just saying.
We had quite a heated discussion here several months ago about Disney's "plans" to eliminate the live steam locomotives and go with steam-profile substitutes. Needless to say all here considered it blasphemy! I posited ol' Walt would come back from the dead and strangle those responsible! Well, it hasn't happened yet and quite honestly I'll be surprised if it does.
Convert the engines to burn propane? That's OK, as long as it's still live steam. Who cares what boils the water?
Oh yeah, Annette was a hottie all right. Darleen was pretty cute too!
I remember riding the monorail. Watching the Disney show on Sunday nights made me think of how futuristic it all was, not to mention Annette Funicello's notable endowments which also intrigued my 10 year old self. I was so disappointed when I finally rode it and it bounced and bumped along like a city bus on an unpaved street. Never did see Annette.
The Disney train tour is outstanding. Costs an extra $45 on top of your park ticket and you have to be at the front gate by about 7:15 am. It lasts 3 to 4 hours. The guy that did our tour was a railfan - and a steam fan - all the way. The locomotives came from a railroad on the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico and needed a lot of work. Walt had a long connection with the Sante Fe and the Sante Fe hauled them on flat cars for part of their trip in the US.
Also, Disney has apparently recently considered eliminating the steam program - basically converting the locos to straight oil/diesel or probably propane (like what Busch Gardens in Virginia has). Next time anyone is at Disney World or Disney Land, please consider stopping by Guest Relations at City Hall on Main Street USA and filling out the comment card to ask that Disney to keep the trains steam.
And about the Monorail, BTW, the steam guys are not fans of it. Our guide told a story of a family telling him that they "took the train to the park" that day. His response: "You mean the elevated bus?" The monorail is nothing more than an electric propulsion unit with three concealed rubber tires per motor underneath - one rides the top of the "rail" and the other two ride the sides. He also tells the story of a publicity shot they had to do one day, with the steam and the monorail in it. They got the steam all fired up and in position, were waiting for the monorail, and asked where it was. Monorail guys' answer: "Umm, we're having a mechanical problem." Long live the steam.
RBW in Virginia
The first two engines used at Disneyland California were custom built from scaled up plans for Walt's 1/8 scale engine named Lilly Belle, for his wife Llillian. The scaled up plans at 5/8th scale made the track gauge close enough to 36" to make that the final designed gauge, which worked well for scrounging locomotives that could be rebuilt to expand the roster.
Details were changed to simulate either a wood burner or a coal burner, the "earlier" engine pulled freight cars and the "modern" [circa 1880s] engine pulled a passenger train. All of the cars were built at the Disney Studio in Burbank.
There are a number of You Tube videos detailing the construction process and the early days of the Railroad, which was Walt Disney's personal property.
Or 2115!
OK. Knotts Berry Farm has two ex-Denver and Rio Grande Western 2-8-0's, numbers 41 and 340, both built by Baldwin in 1881.
I wonder how many diesels built in 1981 will still be running in 2081?
Just speculating.
Knott's also has one of the RGS Galloping Geese which has been re-engined with a Cat diesel.
54light15 Isn't there a steam powered train at Knott's Berry Farm near Los Angeles?
Isn't there a steam powered train at Knott's Berry Farm near Los Angeles?
Yes there is. I'll have to look up the particulars but I remember reading the Knotts Berry Farm engines are former Rio Grande narrow gauge locomotives from Colorado, and built in the 1880's! As with Dollywood and both Disney parks the maintanance and operations are first-rate.
As a kid living in So-Cal (first as a boy in Arcadia then as a teenager in the high desert near Palmdale) during the 60's and 70's, I was pretty much influenced by Walt Disney and his railroad. Whenever we visited Disneyland we always made it a point to take the Disneyland R.R. around the park. It was a great thing to do if you were tired and wanted to rest, but still do something, or you could use the train to get from New Orleans Square over to Tomorrowland in a few minutes. What a nice commute.
Our family had a connection to Disneyland as well. You mentioned Ward Kimball's backyard layout. My grandfather used to tell me he knew Ward Kimball and used to go over to his place. I never knew as a kid if these stories were true, until we were going through my grandfathers things after his passing. I found a bunch of slides in a box, and amongst the many photos of the family and other things, I found some photos of my grandfather posing with Ward Kimball at the dedication of the station at Santa Anita (after they moved the station away from the freeway that was being constructed). My grandfather posed with Mr. Kimball, who wore a conductors outfit to the dedication. Pretty cool!
A few years ago at a model railroad convention in Sacramento, I picked up the book by Michael Broggie (Walt Disney's Railroad Story), who graciously autographed it for me. It's a good read.
I don't get down to Disneyland as much as I used to (I think it's been 10 years), but I do remember the trips around the park behind the steam engines. Thanks for bringing back some great memories.
Jeff
54light15 So it's narrow gauge, then?
So it's narrow gauge, then?
Right, both locomotives are narrow gauge, and if memory serves they were built during World War Two specifically for US Army use on the White Pass and Yukon, the WP&Y taking ownership at war's end.
Firelock76 Yes, Dollywood has a live steam railroad. Turns out Dolly Parton's a steam freak as well and had to have one. As I understand it it's the old "Rebel Railroad" tourist line from the 1960's repurposed. Maintanance and operation is supposed to be excellent. I've never been mind you, I've just read about it and seen it on the Travel Channel.
Yes, Dollywood has a live steam railroad. Turns out Dolly Parton's a steam freak as well and had to have one. As I understand it it's the old "Rebel Railroad" tourist line from the 1960's repurposed. Maintanance and operation is supposed to be excellent.
I've never been mind you, I've just read about it and seen it on the Travel Channel.
Exactly right! The train ride is full of theatric silliness, but the train is for real. The train climbs a pretty good grade leaving the park an the locomotive puts on quite a show. As I recall, there are even some pictures of the locomotives during their time in Alaska in the station with some informative captions.
Dollywood is a pretty well run theme park.
This gives a pretty good idea... https://youtu.be/r0dHXasvdBQ
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
White Pass & Yukon Mikados 70 and 192 are the motive power at Dollywood.
Doesn't Dollywood in Tennesse have a steam railroad? Has anyone been? Is it like Walt's?
I saw a couple of books that covered the history and operation of the Disney railroads on amazon.
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