Samuel Vauclain also had a well-documented aversion to diesels. Baldwin didn't really advertise its diesel locomotives until after Vauclain died.
Technically speaking a "Balanced Compound" as described by Alfred Bruce and others is a different animal that a "Vauclain Compound" particularly in the manner in which the cylinders are harnessed to the drive axle.
A "Balanced Compound" used a crank axle in which the inner cylinders drove two cranks on the inside of the frame while the two outside cylinders drove the external wheel crank pins on the same axle - giving in effect a "crankshaft" front axle. This was a very smooth running design and built and sold by Baldwin in 1912 to 1916 era.
A Vauclain Compound used two cylinders, one over the other per engine side. An upper piston rod from the upper cylinder is attached to a boss on the top of the crosshead. The lower cylinder piston rod attaches to a lower boss on the same crosshead. The Vauclain uses only two drive rods attaching to the drive wheels only - the drive axle is straight.
The effect of these two designs was the "Balanced" was similar to a 4 cylinder car engine while the Vauclain was similar to a 2 cylinder car engine in respect to the overall layout.
The "Baldwin 4 cylinder Balanced Compound" the four connecting rods balanced each other nicely for very smooth running like any multi cylinder engine.
The Baldwin Vauclain Compound design while much cheaper to build, caused the crosshead with unequal forces on top and bottom to "cock" in the "guide ways" and drag. The balance issues were not resolvable like a regular SIMPLE 2 cylinder steam locomotive.
It would appear that the Chinese engine is a VAUCLAIN COMPOUND with a low pressure cylinder mounted over the high pressure cylinder and a VERY rigid set of guides for a center mounted crosshead. It seems that Baldwin Locomotive Works did make Vauclain type 2 cylinder engines also - possibly this is where the confusion is.
It is probably worth noting that Samual Vaulcain became President of Baldwin Locomotive Works. He was a general forman at Baldwin in 1883, a plant superintendent in 1886, went on the board of directors in 1896, vice president in 1911, senior vice president in 1917, and president from 1919 to 1929.
The "Vauclain Compound" was developed by Baldwin Locomotive Works and was popular around 1900 - it is described in the encyclopedia as "two cylinders of different pressure acting on one crosshead controlled by a complex piston valve." It is unclear that both cylinders must be located over each other.
At the 1904 Worlds Fair Pennsylvania Railroad Engineers describe the "Santa Fe #535 as a Vauclain 4 cylinder balanced compound with crank axle."
So there you have it "clear as mud."
Doc
[quote user="M636C"]
Last night I wandered on to the Japanese language Wikipedia site looking at steam locomotive data (largely courtesy of Google translation, which is a bit odd). Anyway, I wandered further on to the Chinese language Wikipedia and found a reference to a 2-8-0 number X 180.
This was found buried in sand along a river bank in northern China, (during excavation for a new bridge) complete except for the wooden cab. There wasn't any information that I saw about when it was buried or why but one imagines wars with the Japanese in 1904-5 and during the 1930s are good opportunities to lose something as big as a locomotive.
Anyway this locomotive is a 5 feet gauge Vauclain Compund built during the late 1890s and has been partially restored (in the Chinese manner) and put on display in Changchun.
A plate on the cylinders lists, in English, various patents of the 1890s and has the statement that the design was patented in Russia, just in case the owners (the Russian operated Chinese Eastern Railway) thought they might copy it. Interestingly, the plate reads "Baldwin Compound" and not Vauclain Compound.
Are there any other Vauclain Compounds preserved anywhere in the world?
I was surfing the net looking at some "Lazarus Locomotives", primarily in the UK, and came across this link: http://www.vicsteam.com/
It looks like the Aussies are planning to build a replica Baldwin 2-8-0 Vauclain compound. So perhaps in time it will be possible to see one in operation. I wish them well.
Wizlish,
Thanks for providing a full site on line availability of the text!
A cursory reading of The Pennsylvania Railroad System at the Louisiana Purchase Exposition Locomotive Tests And Exhibits is revealing!
The Pennsylvania Railroad had planned extensive dynamometer tests on steam locomotives at its Altoona PA engine works in a newly constructed test plant facility at that Altoona sight. The inspirtation of the 1904 Worlds Fair caused the directors to move this equipment and set up the engine test facility in St. Louis at the 1904 Exposition in celebration of the public interest in scientific and engineering of the period. The exhibit sight chosen a the 1904 fair was 31,000 square feet in a space 94 x 330 feet. It also featured a scale model of the proposed Pennsylvania Station in New York - which was later built at the current sight of Madison Square Gardens and whose underground structure remains to this day. Also featured at the fair was a "true to life" walk-in section of the proposed Manhattan to Long Island Railroad Tunnel along with various other exhibits.
The steam locomotive engine dynamometer when constructed ran for hours testing 8 locomotives that year at the Worlds Fair. There was insufficient time to test an additional 3 that had been obtained for test purposes. The general public was witness to the entire proceeding from "set up" to conclusion. The steam locomotives tested were run up to 10 hours at a time to complete the many engineering tests. Provisions were made to coal and water them and for smoke removal as well as crewing - remember this was before firebox stokers. A full time engineering staff was also made available at the fair.
At the conclusion of the fair, the entire dynamometer test apparatus was dismantled and then moved to its home at Altoona, PA where it became the foundation for the long heralded Pennsylvania Railroad test facility. This book gives the initial detailed drawing of the plant and all the various test apparatus, gauges and other unique instruments and blueprints designed for the engine dynamometer - wheels, pedestals, pits, and all the detailed information on the construction technique and problems overcome in testing various locomotives.
In all, the locomotives tested were the best freight and passenger power available at the time in the United States and featured compound locomotive designs from France and Germany. England did not choose to participate. The French locomotive was a DeGlen design purchased by the Pennsylvania RR.
ATCHISON TOPEKA & SANTA FE RR
4-4-2 Atlantic passenger engine #535 class 507, a Vauclain 4 cyl crank axle balanced compound by Baldwin - this engine tested to 1622 indicated horsepower.
2-10-2 "Santa Fe" type freight engine, #929 class 900, a 4 cyl tandum compound by Baldwin - this engine tested to 1258 indicated horsepower.
NEW YORK CENTRAL AND HUDSON RIVER RR
4-4-2 Atlantic passenger engine, #3000 the I1 class, a Cole 4 cyl balanced compound which featured inner HP cylinders driving the front locomotive axle and the outer LP cylinders driving the second axle - built by American Locomotive Works - this engine tested to 1641 indicated horsepower.
PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD
4-4-2 Atlantic passenger engine #2512 a crank axle 4 cyl balanced compound w 2 valve gears for separate cut off of HP and LP cylinders, a copper Belpare firebox, and a adjustable variable exhaust nozzle - this was a French DeGlen design purchased by the Pennsylvania RR for the test - this engine tested to 945 indicated horsepower.
2-8-0 Consolidation freight locomotive #1499 classed H6a, a SIMPLE engine w D valves, new built at Altoona in 1904 with a wide firebox - this engine tested to 1050 indicated horsepower
MICHIGAN CENTRAL RAILROAD
2-8-0 Consolidation freight locomotive #585 class W built by American Locomotive Company, a 2 cylinder cross compound with wide firebox - this engine tested to 1041 indicated horsepower.
LAKE SHORE AND MICHIGAN SOUTHERN
2-8-0 Consolidation freight locomotive, #734 a B-1 class, SIMPLE engine by Brooks Locomotive Works, featured a narrow firebox - this engine tested to 1098 indicated horsepower.
GERMAN HANOVER LOCOMOTIVE WORKS
4-4-2 Atlantic passenger locomotive #628, of the S8 class, a 4 cylinder crank axle balanced compound with Pieloct superheater and featuring a new design of valve gear known as Walschaert, the locomotive was built in Germany by Hanover Locomotive Works - this engine tested to 816 indicated horsepower.
------------------------------
Horsepower tests were made of boiler and cylinder and drawbar measures for each locomotive and results for each provided. NYC&HR Cole balanced compound 4-4-2 Atlantic #3000 vied with AT&SF #535 a balanced Vaulcain compound as the most powerful engine tested with near 1,641 indicated for the NYC and 1,622 indicated for the Santa Fe - also about 1,500 drawbar horsepower each - the boiler horsepower for both was higher.
The road speeds in miles per hour at which these maximum power numbers were achieved was shown. In the case of the New York Central And Hudson River, the importance of valve "cut off" in compound locomotive operation was illustrated - the engine made all its power at 46% cutoff 1,640 hp at 60 miles per hour - yet it ran a highter rotational speed at a lesser horsepower reading at 36% cutoff. This lower horsepower achieved a higher 75 miles per hour speed.
The overall top engine speed obtainable on the railroad were not able to be measured but it was also said of these compound locomotives, that some ran by "cut off" valve setting alone and not by the driver using the throttle. This observation about engine performance reveals that driving a steam locomotive was not like stepping on the gas in your car.
---------------------------
None of the 1904 Worlds Fair tested locomotives survive today, but the Henry Ford Museum does have the sole surviving LS&MS 4-4-2 Atlantic and is probably the closest surviving locomotive! Quite similar to this Ford locomotive is the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry's last surviving high speed NYC&HR passenger 4-4-0 American, the famed #999 unfortunately much changed having lost its original wooden cab and high diameter drive wheels. This is not the case with the Ford LS&MS passenger locomotive which is still mostly intact. Somehow, I wish the Henry Ford Museum would wake up to this unique history of its prize 4-4-2 Atlantic LS&MS engine! Also, observe the unknown top speed achieved Henry Ford himself playing with the LS&MS Atlantic - on his own time - on his own Detroit Toledo & Ironton Railroad vs. the known speed record of NYC&HR 4-4-0 American type, speed record run of the #999 of 112.5 mph near Batavia, NY. in the 1890's.
-------------------
The scientific procedures and mathmatical formulas for all the locomotive tests are clearly given at length and the computers used in creating the scientific data specified. I realized at this point that these COMPUTERS were ranks of mathamaticians hired by the railroad to work out all the answers with paper and pen! they were "human computers!" Unfortunately the book includes many pages of "blue prints" which true to form are not easily coppied on black white medium and so appear as blank pages on the computer downloaded Pennsylvania Railroad locomotive test.
-------------------------
FRICTION - "machine friction" studies were done as part of the horsepower tests! Owing to the tremendous loss of power in the chasis of each locomotive tested in the "friction bearings" used in this pre roller bearing age! The age of "frictonless bearings" was forseen. It appears that GREASE - "heavy grease" was used to lubricate the drive axles and rod bearings and was much inferior to "OIL LUBRICATION." Further, the "quality machine oil" obtained had to be filtered several times to obtain a suitable product!
This was an early forcast of the wonderful "full roller bearing drive" that would be developed on many 20th century steam locomotives such as N&W 611 - C&O 614 - CB&Q 4000 aka 3002 "Aeolus" - NYC 6000's the "Niagaras" - Pennsy Duplex T-1's etc. We need to appreciate this - restoration locomotives without roller bearing drive have a practical but inherent handicap - pick a roller bearing engine to restore if you can!
-----------------------
Several engines failed in testing or were in-capable of being fully tested. The AT&SF 2-10-2 Santa Fe type 4 cylinder tandum compound was too powerful for the 1904 engine test facility at the Worlds Fair and the test dynamometer broke. Apparently the dynamometer brake used to measure power was of insufficient capacity. The Santa Fe although tested was never able to run with full power.
The much vaunted French 4-4-2 Atlantic, a DeGlen design purchased for the test by the Pennsylvania Railroad and displayed at the fair - which engine featured a copper Belpare firebox. This engine burned out a main drive wheel axle bearing which could not be serviced without removal to the Pennsylvania Shops. It was then run-in on the railroad for "break in" purposes and later returned to the fair and re-tested at power at the end of the year.
A very stable running locomotive and a curiosity because of its duel valve gear adjustment - one for each of its high and low pressure cylinder systems - which allowed "cut off" to be varried independently; also for its variable size of adjustable exhaust nozzle which allowed the draft on the locomotive firebox to be varried when running. In spite of the high technology of this locomotive, it generated only 816 indicated horsepower, which was low considering all of the American locomotives freight and passenger of all types generated at least 1000 indicated horsepower. It should also be noted that the successful German Hanover product 4-6-2 passenger Atlantic which featured a superheater as well as Walschaert valve gear, also produced only some 945 indicated horsepower.
The AT&SF 4-4-2 Atlantic a balanced 4 cylinder compound with equal lengh drive rods continually burned out one of the inside rod bearings. These were replaced several times in hope of finishing all of the tests but the engine could not run without violent side to side movement which was cutting off the drive wheel flanges. It was suspected the engine was not built with correct alignment of its parts. Its test were incomplete and it was returned to the railroad. This was in contrast to the other top producing NYC&HR 4-4-2 passenger Atlantic Cole compound which ran very smoothly at the highest speeds, a credit to designer Cole.
The German 4-4-2 would not steam properly without imported German coal - all the other locomotives used the supplied Berwind Coal Co product. This gave rise to my own question concerning how much each steam locomotive is built around a particular fuel used by its designing railroad? Rosebudd for Northern Pacific, Wyoming for Union Pacific, Pennsylvania coal for the PRR, NYC and eastern railroads?
Just some observations here on great finds to be had in reading The Pennsylvania Railroad System at the Louisiana Purchase Exposition Locomotive Tests And Exhibits .
Dr DThe Pennsylvania Railroad System at the Louisiana Purchase Exposition Locomotive Tests And Exhibits
If you want yourown PDF copy to peruse,
https://books.google.com/books/download/The_Pennsylvania_Railroad_System_at_the.pdf?id=Dd0-AAAAYAAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U3AL7k6J3tTZzrCtqCb5q1S6NC-YA
The Pennsylvania Railroad System at the Louisiana Purchase Exposition
Locomotive Tests And Exhibits
St Louis, Missouri 1904
First Edition
Pennsylvania Railroad 1905
------------------------
This volume on the extensive locomotive testing done on site at the 1904 Worlds Fair in St. Louis accounts of the tremendous engineering study done on sight for the Exposition. One of the topics was the in depth study of compound locomotives. Other studies were on "limited cutoff" and its relationship to "throttle." As well as a host of other pertinent to the period steam railroad topics. A copy of this study is in the archives of the New York Public Library.
The 1904 World Olympic Games were also held at the fair. Historians account the theme of the fair was race and empire. It had a long lasting impact on intellectuals in the fields of history, art history, architecture, and anthropology. Most people found it to be a fair of entertainment, with exposure to popular culture and the discovery of new consumer products. Sixty two foreign nations exhibited and 43 of the then 45 American states were represented. About 19,600,000 people visited the fair.
Several kinds of new food were introduced to Americans at the fair - including waffle ice cream cones, the hamburger, and hot dog. Americans also became aquainted with peanut butter, iced tea, and cotton candy. Dr. Pepper soda and Puffed Wheat cereal "shot from guns" were also introduced at the fair.
The song "Meet Me In St. Louis, Louis" was written for the fair as was the Jazz Piano Rag "Cascades" written by Scott Joplin.
The Spanish American War having been fought some eight years earlier, the new terratories of Guam, the Phillipine Islands and Puerto Rico were represented. These native people and their cultures were present.
Famous American band leader John Phillip Sousa performed on the opening day and several times during the year.
President Theodore Roosevelt opened the fair by telegraph message but did not attend until after the election in November 1904 not wanting to use the fair as his "bully pulpit."
Product of the "Miracle Worker" - Helen Keller famous for being both deaf and blind - and who recently graduated from Radcliff Collage gave a lecture in the main auditorium.
Fruit specialist J.T. Stintson coined the phrase "An apple a day keeps the doctor away!" at an exposition lecture.
Henri Poincare noted physicist gave a keynote address on mathmatical physics including an outline in what would be known later to Albert Einstein as "special Relativity.
Famous Apache War Chief Geronimo resided in attendance in his tepee as as part of the Ethnology Exhibit.
Jack Daniel famous founder of Jack Daniels Distillary and Tennessee Whiskey fame entered the whisky competition. It took 4 hours for the 8 judges to award him the gold metal!
----------------------
America was young! - can do steam railroading had just tamed the continent! - and all the bright world was the stage!
ACY Is anybody here prepared to suggest that the 5550 would be more practical for regular day-to-day use, or less expensive to build?
5550 would certainly be 'more practical' for day-to-day service on trains long enough to cover the costs of excursions these days -- its operating costs will probably be less than a NKP 2-8-4. I don't think anyone is under the delusion that a new-build Vauclain compound of any workable size (probably no bigger than an Atlantic) would cost more than 5550 ... but the question isn't that; it's where you find a group to set up, finance, build, and maintain the compound. 5550 has an organization and at least a head start on things.
My apologies. I meant only surviving *american-built* compound 3 cylinder. I have updated my above post.
Gotta remember remember the Europeans! Some mighty fine locos and preservation efforts over there!
"S. Connor wrote the following post 6 hours ago:
60,000 is the only surviving compound 3 cylinder."
How about Great Northern of Ireland Class V 4-4-0 No 85 Merlin. Not only does it survive but it is in working order and runs excursions frequently...
In the British National Railway Museum, possibly the second three cylinder compound built, Midland Railway No 1000 is complete and has operated since preservation, although it is not in full working order now.
M636C
Dr D Indeed the famous Baldwin Locomotive Works demonstrator 50,000 - now at the Franklin Institute - is a unique water tube firebox high pressure, superheated, "three cylinder compound" design of 1926! Doc
Indeed the famous Baldwin Locomotive Works demonstrator 50,000 - now at the Franklin Institute - is a unique water tube firebox high pressure, superheated, "three cylinder compound" design of 1926!
I believe you mean Baldwin 60,000. It should be noted the water-tube firebox was never suited to railroad applications, as it was sensitive to temprature variations. When it leaked, it wreaked havoc, throwing water and steam down onto the fire, smothering it. Also consider the higher maintenance cost of this boiler type, and the maintence of a 3rd cylinder (in an inconvient place for serviceing) and the compounding maintenance.
It is easy to see why this locomotive never would have been successul, as costs associated with the "extra stuff" quickly outweighed fuel savings and power.
60,000 is the only surviving (American-Built) compound 3 cylinder.
On a side note, I think that the vauclain compound and the 3 cylinder locomotives are the most unique "fads" of steam development. They both had their benefits, and downfalls, but none the less hold a place in the story of steam development, and deserve a spotlight in the field of preservation.
Now to get one of each operational. All in due time, I suppose.
I agree that a reconstructed Vauclain (or other) Compound would only be useful as a museum piece. If it were to be operated, it would be for demonstration purposes. The ostensible topic here is Steam & Preservation, so I consider that entirely appropriate. Is anybody here prepared to suggest that the 5550 would be more practical for regular day-today use, or less expensive to build?
Tom
Error --- duplicate post
CSSHEGEWISCH!
My reference to the COMPOUNDED Norfolk And Western Y-6 2-8-8-2 as compared to the similar SIMPLE Norfolk and Western A-1 2-6-6-4 is an example of late steam "compound" VS "simple" engineering by the same company. Also the Chesapeake And Ohio 2-6-6-2 COMPOUND built in 1949 by the same company that was giving us the mighty 2-6-6-6 SIMPLE built in 1947!
Good observation of the many SIMPLE articulated locomotives that were indeed not "Mallet" designs which of course would have needed to be COMPOUNDED to follow his design!
My grandmother, Alma Argow who lived from 1880's to the 1960's - a college graduate of the pre WWI era - this was very unusual - she worked for the RED CROSS in WWI - she visited the ST. LOUIS EXPOSITION and brought away the story of it to me.
It is hard to believe that the Pennsylvania Railroad would have set up a working locomotive "test plant" at that remote sight as an exhibit and generated such scientific data on steam compounding!
One observation, many of the three-cylinder designs in the United States were not compounds. Also, it should be noted that SP's early cab-aheads were built as compounds but most were later rebuilt as four-cylinder simple locomotives. I hope that the intern is aware that UP's Big Boys and Challengers, N&W's A's, C&O/VGN Alleghenies and many other articulateds were built as simple locomotives.
It was the 19th century desired increase in cost efficiency that was the driving force behind the late 19th century steam design that attempted compound locomotive development.
Alfred Bruce in The Steam Locomotive in America gives an efficency chart developed by the Pennsylvania Railroad Test Plant which was set up at the St. Louis Exposition in 1904. Which chart according to Bruce is the best available comparative test data remaining on compound locomotives developed between 1880 and 1906. All these locomotive tests were set at 80 RPM and show the CYLINDER STEAM RATES per 1 indicated horsepower developed for the various compound locomotive designs of the period.
PERFORMANCE DATA - ST. LOUIS EXPOSITION TEST PLANT
STEAM PRESSURE PSI CYLINDER TYPE CYLINDER STEAM RATE in LBS
saturated 200 2 cyl SIMPLE engine 25 (base figure)
saturated 225 4 cyl tandem compound 23
saturated 220 4 cyl balanced compound 21
saturated 210 2 cyl cross compound 20
SUPERHEAT 200 4 cyl balanced compound 18 (comparison)
This technological state of locomotive design development revealed by the ST LOUIS EXPOSITION TEST PLANT shows the efficiency of the SIMPLE 2 cylinder engine as a base figure and then compares this base to the "tandem," "balanced" and "cross-compound" designs with regard to steam usage efficency. Finally, this test then compares another baseline similar SUPERHEATED engine example as toping all the others designs in economic performance - or "the cylinder steam rate required" to generate 1 indicated horsepower.
The different locomotives designs varied in - 2 cylinder and 4 cylinder - "cross," "Vaulcain," "tandem," and "balanced," compound each showing a variation in component part layout pattern of design used to developed the compounded high and low pressure steam idea.
These various "high" and "low" pressure cylinder arrangements were all thought out to obtain greater steam expansion in the locomotive cylinders by means of TWO expansion cycles - engines thus COMPOUNDED had a cylinder volume and size ratio between high and low pressue cylinders at a ratio of 1:2 1/2.
This COMPOUND steam expansion was thus divided into two stages - from a boiler pressure of near 200 psi - the "high pressure" cylinders worked this at this rate of 200 psi expanding this to 80 psi, - afterwhich the steam then entered the "low pressure" cylinders and continued to work this same steam to an exhaust pressure of 5 to 10 psi.
These four various compound locomotive cylinder designs - CROSS, VAULCAIN, TANDEM and BALANCED - can be again divided apart by their "locomotive drive wheel axle" designs.
Three that used a "straight drive wheel axle" were the CROSS compound with one "high pressure cylinder" on one side of the locomotive and one "low pressure cylinder" on the other side.
Also the VAULCAIN compound with four cylinders - a "high and low pressure set of cylinders" on each side of the locomotive - one cylinder above the other with two piston rods acting above eachother - so similarly acting upon both above and below each engine crosshead.
Also the TANDEM compound design with four cylinders - so a similar "high and low pressure cylinder on each side of the locomotive - but instead "one cylinder stacked directly on top of the other." Both pistons from the cylinders were attached directly to the same piston rod. The two pistons and two cylinders thus acting directly upon only one crosshead - through the one similarly shared piston rod both thus stacked together.
These three compound engine designs, as I said, all used a "straight drive wheel axle."
----------
The fourth type of compound cylinder design - the BALANCED compound used instead a "crank drive wheel axle." This the BALANCED design developed where "two high pressure cylinders were located inside the engine frames" and another "two low pressure cylinders located outside the frames." Each cylinder thus had its own piston, piston rod, crosshead and drive rod all connecting upon the same locomotive axle - a total of 4 drive rods piston rods and pistons acting on the one engine drive wheel crank axle.
These Baldwin Locomotive Works - FOUR CYLINDER BALANCED COMPOUNDS with their "crank drive wheel axle" were a Baldwin product developed between 1902 and 1906. It is said, that, "when new they were remarkably smooth running since the crank on the left-hand inside high-pressure cylinder was placed 180 degrees from the adjacent outside low pressure cylinder bringing all the moving parts into balance. The left-hand pair of cranks were still set 90 degrees from the right-hand pair as in conventional locomotive construction."
------------------
As mentioned earlier the ST. LOUIS EXPOSITION TEST PLANT in 1904 forcast the 1906 era development of the "Locomotive boiler SUPERHEATER" whose cost efficiency resulted in the 19th century compound steam locomotive engine rapidly passing out of existance.
To say nothing of the obvious multitude of maintaince headaches and costs connected with the complex machinery of compound locomotive designs.
Reciprocating steam locomotives themselves had inherent vibration and stability issues which compounding only seemed to exacerbate - vibrations of longitudinal nature as "shimmy" as well as those lateral about the vertical axis of movement as "nosing" and vertical about the horizontal axis such as was called "galloping." If these conditions were tolerable when new they were of continually greater magnitude as a compound engine wore - compound designs worsened these problems which were common to all reciprocating locomotives.
It is also amazing that the steam design engineers were later able to revive compounding to some degree in the 1920s with three cylinder design and with very successful 4 cylinder articulated locomotive designs that lasted up and through the 1950s.
Today the last locomotive built by Baldwin Locomotive works - a throw back Chesapeake And Ohio "mallet four cylinder articulated compound" is being overhauled and rebuilt to run on Western Maryland Senic Railroad. Also that a Norfolk and Western Y-6 the last and arguably best remains a testament to the compound idea.
It also not hard to see why Atchison Topeka And Santa Fe converted many of its 19th century compound locomotives to SIMPLE designs. They were better as converted using SUPERHEATED steam. The historical compound design remaining for us just a glimmer of 'yesterdays dream."
Were a Vaulcain compound to have survived or be reproduced, it would be only useful as a museum piece.
wanswheel wrote the following post 6 hours ago:
"Is it possible X180 was lost as recently as the early 1930s?"
Page and Nurminen indicate that X180 was "off the books" of the CER by 1920 (along with three others) so it is most likely that it was in the river by then....
beaulieu It could have been lost during the Bolshevik Revolution. In 1918 the Czechoslovakian Legion was trying to fight its way out of Russia by the route along the Trans-Siberian Railway towards Vladivostok. To assist them the British, French, American, and Japanese sent an expeditionary force into Siberia. The Japanese force eventually totaling 70,000 men. The force pushed west eventually reaching Chita, the western end of the Chinese Eastern railway, where they met the Czech Legion. Over time the Allied forces were pushed back and were evacuated out of Vladivostok in 1920, while the Japanese forces eventually retreated into Manchuria in 1922.
It could have been lost during the Bolshevik Revolution. In 1918 the Czechoslovakian Legion was trying to fight its way out of Russia by the route along the Trans-Siberian Railway towards Vladivostok. To assist them the British, French, American, and Japanese sent an expeditionary force into Siberia. The Japanese force eventually totaling 70,000 men. The force pushed west eventually reaching Chita, the western end of the Chinese Eastern railway, where they met the Czech Legion. Over time the Allied forces were pushed back and were evacuated out of Vladivostok in 1920, while the Japanese forces eventually retreated into Manchuria in 1922.
NDGI cannot speak knowledgeably about the thermodynamics involved in Compounding on a 'straight' locomotive of American design, usually with two unequal-size Cylinders, one on each side. (Not a Vauclain Design)
I came very late to the von Borries-style compound (cross-compound). I was unaware there were many successful examples in the United States; they would have had a short lifespan and would have required careful handling. As with many other compounds of that era, the actual thrust produced by the LP steam could be dramatically lower than expected and of course out of balance with HP. That was bad for balance, bad for the chassis, no fun for passengers, etc. And of course the power was limited.
Vauclain compounds had the same problem, but it did not manifest as a balance problem, as the loss of effective LP pressure would be roughly the same on both sides, and only the resultant of both cylinder thrusts was 'seen' by the main rod and main driver. Unfortunately Sam did not realize that the differential thrust would try to 'cock' the crosshead in the guide, with concomitant stress to the piston rod glands, rings, etc. The crosshead guides and lubrication were not designed to deal with this, and I suspect the increased shop and material expense ate up the 'big savings' on fuel and water.
A modern Vauclain designer would know about this 'going in' and account for it two ways. First, he would ensure that the contribution of the LP cylinders was as nearly balanced as practicable to that of the HP cylinders over the effective range of stroke where the differential was significant; second, he would use better crosshead and guide design and tribology.
Great Information!
Thank You.
CSSHEGEWISCHACY is onto something with developing an operating Vauclain compound. Part of any such development should be an explanation of how it works, why it was developed, and why it was superseded.
Some of which is fascinating, like the dramatic speed limit imposed by the intricate steam passages (part of the reason why some of the 'express' compounds had such high drivers) and the problem with crosshead-guide distortion and wear (due to the cumulative result of differential piston thrust between HP and LP at different points in the stroke). I would like to see if a 'modern' multiple-bearing crosshead design, or Porta's all-jointed 'crosshead', might address the problem.
I also wonder whether high-temperature jacketing, perhaps with circulating boiler water in small passages around the cylinder block, could overcome some of the thermodynamic 'issues' with losses -- the Vauclain valve ought to be tolerant of a fair degree of superheat and still be made to seal well, shouldn't it? Or is differential expansion within the valve spool going to make a mockery of timing at high load...?
M636C To get back to Chinese Eastern X 180, I was looking through Russian Locomotives Volume 2 1905-1920 by Nurminen and Page. On pages 202 to 204 there is summary of the class described as "Class KH", a transliteration of the Russian Character "X". Those on the Chinese Eastern Railway were numbered 151-200 and 201-271 with minor boiler variations between the two batches. Four locomotives were missing from the 1920 stock lists, locomotives 171, 180 (the locomotive recovered above), 183 and 245. It is suggested that these were lost in the Russo Japanese war of 1904-1905. (of course the 1917 revolution was also a possibility, but perhaps the Chinese Eastern was too far away to be affected by 1920). So it seems likely that the locomotive went into the river around 1905... M636C
To get back to Chinese Eastern X 180, I was looking through Russian Locomotives Volume 2 1905-1920 by Nurminen and Page. On pages 202 to 204 there is summary of the class described as "Class KH", a transliteration of the Russian Character "X". Those on the Chinese Eastern Railway were numbered 151-200 and 201-271 with minor boiler variations between the two batches.
Four locomotives were missing from the 1920 stock lists, locomotives 171, 180 (the locomotive recovered above), 183 and 245. It is suggested that these were lost in the Russo Japanese war of 1904-1905. (of course the 1917 revolution was also a possibility, but perhaps the Chinese Eastern was too far away to be affected by 1920).
So it seems likely that the locomotive went into the river around 1905...
ACY is onto something with developing an operating Vauclain compound. Part of any such development should be an explanation of how it works, why it was developed, and why it was superseded.
I guess my comment last night was provoked by the idea that the educational function of a railway museum might be enhanced with some representation of this important (if ill-fated) phase of steam locomotive development. Those ATSF and UP engines, if rebuilt as compounds, might be worthwhile additions to a museum focusing on those roads, or on Baldwin (RR Mus. of PA? Franklin Institute?). If the project were carried out, I'm not sure anybody would want to operate and maintain the engine. But, as mentioned, it would probably be a lot cheaper, more flexible, and more manageable than the 5550.
Of course this is all theoretical. I can't do it and I can't finance it. Maybe somebody else can. Until then, it's just an idea.
Take Care.
There are several extant small Santa Fe 2-6-2's in the 1000 and 1100 number series which were built as Vauclain Compounds and later rebuilt as simple engines. There are also several U.P. 2-8-0's in the 400 series which were also built as Vauclain Compounds and later simpled. There may be others. I've often mused that it would be interesting to rebuild one of those engines to return it to its as-built condition.
NDG Off Topic. Does anyone know if there are any 'Big and Little' Compound rod locomotives, ( Not Articulated or 'almost one-offs' similar to Rack engines and such. ) extant?? I understand CPR operated a few until c. 1929, then scrapped them without conversion to Simple?? An example. http://members.shaw.ca/cprsteam/steamcpr_files/cp778-01.jpg Thank You.
Off Topic.
Does anyone know if there are any 'Big and Little' Compound rod locomotives, ( Not Articulated or 'almost one-offs' similar to Rack engines and such. ) extant??
I understand CPR operated a few until c. 1929, then scrapped them without conversion to Simple??
An example.
http://members.shaw.ca/cprsteam/steamcpr_files/cp778-01.jpg
The proper name for that beast is cross-compound. I'm nobody's idea of an expert on stuffed and mounted locos, so saying I'm not aware of any doesn't mean much.
Chuck
Interesting site.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.