You could do the Polar Bear Express from Cochrane up to Moosenee and James Bay. Or catch the one that goes to Churchill Manitoba from Winnipeg if you want a "normal" train ride. I like Strasburg and Cass/Durbin (and there are one or two more in that area). Steamtown has some nice excursions from Scranton to Delaware Water Gap. Any train through the Rockies in Canada is good. There are some nice ones in New England too. If you're ok with flying, then try the North Yorkshire Moors railway, the Welsh Highlands, Ffestiniog and Tallylyn railway trips in the UK. The UK has over 100 steam railways that operate on a scheduled service as well as just doing the short runs. A great Tram museum in the Derwent Valley (about 80 that run) and that is a UNESCO World Heritage site with the start of the industrial revolution in England and the cotton/wool mills.
We just rode the Cumbres and Toltec from Chama to Antonito and returned by motor coach. Splurged on Parlor Car and it was well worth the fare. This was truly a bucket list adventure. Highly recommend.
I did ride the D&S when it was still owned by D&RGW, so I'd definitely recommend that one. Never rode the C&T but have heard it's great too.
Napa Valley wine train is another good one, beautiful scenery and great food.
And the Grand Canyon Railway. Friend and I took the SW Chief to Williams where we had booked a GCR package that included hotel at Williams, ride to Canyon and stay overnight. I was lucky to have #4960 pulling our train for both trips. I had rode behind her a few times with parents on CB&Q steam excursions, so it was like seeing an old friend again.
We must do the C&T next trip. The 550 highway is an enjoyable drive.
Dr D,
Right on as usual. I also had several brewski's at the cantina in Chama. Once with the wife and once with my lifelong friend and fellow railfan/former C&NW worker Ski (short for G#$%*ski) The C&T is absolutely the best steam trip in the country followed by the D&S, Georgetown loop a close 3rd. Each one having it's own unique qualities. I will absolutely go again to all 3.
And if your driving the, Boreas Pass is a former narrow guage line that is now a gravel road that goes over the mountain. There is a wooden water tank (Bakers Tank) still in place along the old right of way and the summit has a few buildings that housed railroad crews when the railroad was there. There is also a narrow guage wooden boxcar on a short piece of track at the summit. I drove it in mid June and there was still snow at the summit, elevation 11,481 ft!
Just rode the D&S and C&T last week.
Highly recommend the D&S museum AND the Yard Tour. You need an extra 1/2 day to do that though if you take the full train ride. The D&S has some spectacular scenery but it gets repetitive after awhile. If I was to do it over again, I would take the bus back from Silverton. The layover in Silverton for lunch on the roudtrip is not a lot of time to explore. Just enough to eat and walk to the unused depot [museum] and back.
The C&T is railfan paradise and I found it far superior to the D&S. Even my wife agreed it was more interesting. We took the train all the way from Antonito to Chama and enjoyed the entire ride. The scenary out of Antonito is not spectacular but it is pretty and the Friends (volunteer guides) give great explanations and keep it interesting. We were really impressed by the dining hall--hot meal included in the trip--and the food was quite good. We had expected the typical boxed lunch found on tourist trains. The staff was friendly and went out of their way to make the event enjoyable.
If in the area, I would do both railroads, but if you can choose only one I would ride the C&T.
Dr D, I was considering Red Mountain Pass last winter on a trip from Telluride to Durango Mtn Resort. Then I heard about the Danish tourist, and also since it had snowed, a local advised me aginst it. So I had a nice trip over Lizard Head Pass.
I would guess that the 470s didn't make it to Colorado Springs, since the middle rail (NG) had been removed east of Salida in 1911.
At the risk of dating myself, the gauge conversion of the Monarch Branch was the subject of an article in July 1965 TRAINS, the first issue that I ever bought.
Also, did Rio Grande ever seriously consider dieselizing its surviving narrow gauge lines, especially after EMD included the GA8 in the export catalog.
Mike,
I stand corrected the stone monument that Colorado Placed at Cumbries does say 10,022 feet elevation which I can tell you is just unbelievable that anyone would build a railroad to that height.
My son and I went on to Durango and took the highway to Silverton. He was saying to me "Dad does this highway get any more dangerous than it is here?" I told him "Son, this is just the beginning. We leave Silverton going north along the old grade of the Silverton Railroad to Red Mountain Pass following Mineral Creek past the Star Mine at 9,300 ft to Chatanooga at 10,280 ft to sumit and Red Mountain at 10,910 ft past the old Vanderbilt spur the Yankee Girl spur the Silver Bell spur and the corkscrew turntable and where Joker Tunnel was."
Today this rail route is known as Colorado Highway Route 550 and it goes on further to Ouray, Colorado. It is also called the "Million Dollar Highway" - the most dangerous road in North America - the second most dangerous road in the Western Hemisphere behind Bolivia's Death Highway. According to USA Today it is also among the 12 most dangerous highways in the ENTIRE WORLD.
With over 300 accidents in the last ten years on this route, The Million Dollar Highway! and they keep improving it all the time. Two just went over the cliffs this winter. One was a Danish tourist driving a Cadillac Escalade the other a teen on the way to the highschool prom. The Danish man was not located until Spring."
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Colorado has some of the most death defying highways in America. Colorado Route 50 over Monarch Pass 11,312 ft is also the former Denver and Rio Grande Railroad narrow gauge route. Absolutely just as thrilling!
People ask the state, "Why would you allow such highways with no shoulder to the road and a mere six inches of dirt and sheer cliffs dropping thousands of feet." The state has replied, "We don't want the guard rails because we have to push the snow somewhere." One highway plow worker, Loyd Berry voluntarily retired after 8 years working on The Million Dollar Highway citing that 8 years of snow removal was all his nerves, and his family were good for.
Google "Colorado Million Dollar Highway" or "Route 550" Wikapedia for the extensive story.
Can you imagine running the narrow gauge railroad built in the 1880's with hand set brakes over such mountain railroads?
At Cumbries Pass watching Cumbries & Toltec 488 go up grade was a remarkable experience. The "mike" slipped occasionally, but the sound of the exhaust could be heard for miles in the high mountains. She must have been running throttle full out. Railroad engineers talk about how the unique engines were designed to do one thing, CLIMB and the natural rotation of the steam engine precluded them from running away down hill.
Denver & Rio Grande Western operated mostly narrow gauge lines in Colorado and these remaining steam engines were used on the entire D&RGW system. I am taking about the DRGW 470's and DRGW 480's series engines. These locomotives were built by ALCO and Baldwin in the 1920's.
The Denver and Rio Grande Western took a chance and tried to build their own power when they went with bigger locomotives in the construction of the DRGW 490 series which were technically a lighter locomotive than the Baldwin DRGW 480's. The DRGW 490s were more powerful and better freight engines but were hard on the track. It appears the major engine builders like Baldwin knew more than they were giving them credit for. C&T and Silvertion have all quit using the DRGW 490's.
Unfortunately the US Govenment siezed 7 of the DRGW 470 series locomotives during WW II and took them to Alaska. These were the "passenger power" of such famous trains as the San Juan Express. The Feds never returned the 470's after the war and scrapped them leaving the railroad was with just 3 of these engines for passenger use. They remain operational on the Silverton RR today.
All the locomotives you see on C&T and Durango Silvertion today were the best narrow gauge power that Denver & Rio Grande Western was able to develop in 90 years of Colorado railroading. They were operated from Santa Fe, New Mexico to Black Canyon of the Gunnison. From Royal Gorge to Alamosa and from Colorado Springs to Durango.
I can tell you the state of COLORADO has some mighty impressive mountain country. My fingernails are still imbedded in the back of the steering wheel of the rental Hyundai. Adding snow and ice to the trip we took would just be unthinkable!
Doc
Dr D ... At Cumbries Pass - 11,500 feet - we caught the "Friends of Cumbries Toltec Special Steam Train" which ran Friday evening to honor volunteers and supporters of C&T. ...
... At Cumbries Pass - 11,500 feet - we caught the "Friends of Cumbries Toltec Special Steam Train" which ran Friday evening to honor volunteers and supporters of C&T.
...
Cumbres Pass is 10022 ft. Perhaps you were thinking of Boreas Pass (C&S) at 11482 ft.
basementdweller Firelock76 I agree Colorado is a beautiful state. Silverton is an enjoyable place for a day or so, almost like stepping back in time. However I couldn't imagine a more desolate town in the dead of winter. No offense intended to those who do live there. I would love to do a tour of the mines.
Firelock76 I agree Colorado is a beautiful state. Silverton is an enjoyable place for a day or so, almost like stepping back in time. However I couldn't imagine a more desolate town in the dead of winter. No offense intended to those who do live there. I would love to do a tour of the mines.
I've been to Silverton in the winter...it's just as beautiful as summer, maybe more so. But, it takes a hardy soul to live there year round. The snow piles as high as the second story windows, and sometimes the highways are closed for days at a time (you can't get there by road without crossing a major mountain pass).
Hi David!
Food in New Jersey: "How do I love thee. let me count the ways..."
Well for burgers and hot dogs there's Hiram's Roadstand in Fort Lee, the State Line Lookout Inn in Palisades Interstate Park, and the Fireplace on Route 17 in Paramus. Just gotta love Hiram's motto: Dogs, burgers and brew, since 1932! And the view from the State Line Inn can't be beat, up on the Palisades 500 feet over the Hudson River.
The best pizza in the world is in New Jersey! No place in particular, anywhere you go is good.
Then there's the bakerys! The B&W in Hackensack, best crumb cake on the planet, and you can't beat anything else they've got. There's Zadies Kosher Bakery in Fair Lawn, Rispoli's in Emerson, and Mazurs down Lyndhurst way.
Diners!
For variety in foodstuffs, Jersey's hard to beat.
On the other hand, Virginia's got BARBACUE! Good stuff, although the good folks from Texas might turn up their noses at the Carolina / Virginia stuff.
Oh, I forgot Van Dyks in Ridgewood for ice cream! Don't get between Lady Firestorm and Van Dyks maple walnut, it's a danger zone, you'll get trampled.
Jeez, now I'm hungry. Now see what you've done?
Wayne
Miss New Jersey for the Food? Been to Colonial Williamsburg five times, four times by private railroad car, twice with Mountain View, twice with Lehigh Valley 353, and once with Amtrak for acoustical consulting at the college chapel. Love the place. There is an active non-traditional synagogue in a restored old building off the historic district with nice people too. But, before my Kosher days, the food was as wonderful as the Colonial atmosphere and historyand music. If I get to visit the place again, I would make an exception, not eat any meat, but try to enjoy what I enjoyed before. True, the Spanish food in Newark's Ironbound area cannot be had anywhere else, but what else is so wonderful about New Jersey food? Unless you like shellfish seafood, and then I guess South Jersey is about the next best after the area between Portland and Bangor Miane.
As regards railroading, well, the GG1s and Camelbacks don't roam anymore. A lot of interest renaims, certainly.
Ok! I was just out to see the Cumbries and Toltec Senic RR - and this is my report.
I was in Chama in 1966 when it was a freight only "twice a week" operation of Denver and Rio Grande Western RR. Wow it hasn't changed except for a larger brick engine house behind the original.
My son is a corporate lawyer for Source Gas in Golden, Colorado and he and I drove down to Spanish Peaks then on Alamosa and to Antonito and then on up into Cumbries Pass. Before we left Antonito we stopped at the new engine house - the original and backshop was torn down - thanks D&RGW! As we looked at the locomotive parked on the ready track - D&RGW 488 - steamed up for tomorrows run, I said to my 33 year old lawyer son -
"Son do you see this engine? take a good look - this engine isn't in a cage - Tomorrow its going to run on the main line it was built for - its going to run for 6 solid hours - it going out across the trackless San Luis Valley to climb the high mountians up to 11,500 feet - as it has done since the day it was built in 1927. And its going to do it day after day after day! its special because its the last - the last part of a huge narrow gauge railroad empire that ran from Black Canyon of the Gunnison thru the Royal Gorge - and from Santa Fe, New Mexico to Salida, Colorado and on to Durango and the mines at Silverton. Take a good look!"
We drove up Cumbries Pass that evening - paused to watch a huge bull elk with at least a 5 foot rack get out of the highway and later herds of deer. At Cumbries Pass - 11,500 feet - we caught the "Friends of Cumbries Toltec Special Steam Train" which ran Friday evening to honor volunteers and supporters of C&T.
Finally, getting into Chama, NM in the dark we got our motel room and then went back into Chama - to the Railroad Cantina which is an old railroaders inn - the cantina was built when the D&RGW itself was built in Chama - in 1881. We sat at the ornate mahogany bar and later went out on the Spanish porch with a couple of "cold ones" and spent some time talking father and son - until we heard the C&T corporate steam special whistle into town.
In this quiet westrn town we got up left our unfinshed drinks and walked over in the dark into the rail yard and saw the steam train arrive down its mainline - whistling and bell ringing - just as the narrow gauge train has arrived in Chama for over 140 years!
Yah make my day why don't ya!
Not knocking Colorado David, far from it. I've been there several times.
First time was in 1976. I stopped in at the Air Force Academy as my brother was a cadet there. Let me tell you, I sure had fun being the only Marine in sight in the middle of an Air Force establishment! Got the guided tour from my brother and you're right, it IS one impressive place.
"Little Brother" lives there now permanently so that's been the reason for subsequent visits. We've seen quite a bit, Durango, Salida, Pagosa Springs, Cripple Creek, Golden, and other places. Certainly a lot to do and see.
BUT, here in Virginia we've got Colonial Williamsburg, Yorktown, Mount Vernon, more Civil War sites than you can shake a stick at, plus lots of other things.
Again, nothing against Colorado, but I like where I'm at just fine.
I still miss New Jersey though. Especially for the food!
Hey, F76, don't knock Colorado. Both Denver and Colorado Springs have symphony orchestras, and Denver is a more cosmopolitan city than many larger cities. It has everything a major city should have and lacks some of the problems that some of the East Coast cities seem to have.
The Air Force Academy is definitely worth a visit. Colorado certainly is one of the top three states, along with Pennsylvania and California, for railroading interest.
And no problem for me in finding a friendly Jewish community with good relationhs with all other ethnic grouips in the city. And I did work on some buildings in the State. Including the AFA Chapel.
No. We had a couple join our car who had rode the bus up to Silverton.
They said they were advised by a friend not to take the train both ways. I can see that point of view, the highway views are beautiful too (we drove them the next day) and if time is an issue too.
Say Basementdweller, I forgot to ask. I'm curious, did anyone up-grade to the parlor car for the trip back down? If so, did they give their reasons?
Glad to be of assistance, and I'm super-glad you and the wife enjoyed yourselves!
Silverton's interesting, but I wouldn't care to live there. Nothing personal against the town, but I'm an East-Coaster through and through. Colorado's a great place to visit but there's nothing there to entice me to take up permanent residence.
well what a great day on the Durango and Silverton RR. Yes we rode in the parlor ca (Animosa) i do believe it was. Our car attendant made all the difference to make the trip very informative and enjoyable. Thank you to everyone's assistance for your suggestions. I can see us doing more of these types of trips. We didn't have time for the museum, maybe next time.
To those of you who have done this trip - what do you make of Silverton? Certainly an interesting place, but could you live there?
Firelock76 is right about the fine museum. I was through there last summer, but didn't have time for the train ride. The museum is excellant and free! They do have a donation receptical (jar maybe? foggy memory!) and such a fine facility definately deserves support. The gentleman overseeing things when we were there was from the D&S car department. Very knowledgeable and friendly.
Happy Rails to you!
Basementdweller, I hope I catch you in time. Try and allow two days for the D&S, or maybe a day and a half. The reason I say this is the D&S has a fine museum on site, however the train trips start before the museum opens and the same will be closed before you get back, if you ride the train up-and-down.
A half-day will do for the museum.
At any rate, enjoy the trip! We certainly did, and you won't be sorry you went.
Remember what I said about the parlor car.
Just to follow up on this thread, this week my wife and I will be riding the Durango and Silverton RR. We are really looking forward to it. I will post a pic or two. Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.
Interesting question about what to do that will provide the most enjoyment.
My answer is simple. Let Via Rail Canada provide the most enjoyable and scenic vacation that you will ever have. Get on in Toronto, and travel 4 nights and days across Canada to Vancouver BC in 1950's luxury, using totally modern equipment. If funds permit, book a bedroom in sleeping car service, and that will provide all of your meals (5 star quality), access to the most beautiful vista dome cars in the world, and some of the most gorgeous scenery in the world.
Subscribe to Via Rail's web page and keep your eye open for specials. They are amazingly affordable if you can travel outside peak travel times. It must be a great vacation, as the last time I was on this train in 2013, the train was 25 cars long, and totally sold out in all classes. Don't be intimidated by that statement! Via provided lots of staff, and two dining cars, plus 4 dome cars. Lots of service, great food, and a wonderful environment to enjoy the trip, and meet lots of new people. When was the last time that you travelled and actually spoke to a fellow traveller. On Via Rail, you'll meet and enjoy talking to lots of other travellers from all over the world, because you have the time to do so. Upon arrival in Vancouver BC, take the time to tour the city and think about renting a car. Its only a couple of hours to the mountains and some of the most spectacular scenery in the Rocky Mountains. Fly home from Vancouver or Seattle (take the train from Vancouver to Seattle). Via Rail's customer service will help with all aspects of your plans. Simple.
PeteinWaterloo
10 cross-Canada, Via Rail crossings.
mogul264 I recommend you take the one-way to the dining facility half-way point (Osier, Co), eat lunch, and return via bus. The train DOES continue to Antonito, Colorado. and returns, but this second part is somewhat boring and meanders, not as scenic, on flat land. The first part is VERY scenic, lots of picture opportunities.
I recommend you take the one-way to the dining facility half-way point (Osier, Co), eat lunch, and return via bus. The train DOES continue to Antonito, Colorado. and returns, but this second part is somewhat boring and meanders, not as scenic, on flat land. The first part is VERY scenic, lots of picture opportunities.
There is no bus service at Osier. What (I think) you can do is ride the train out of Chama, eat lunch at Osier and then change trains to the one departing for Chama.
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