SAM!!!! Don't you realize what you have done!
YOUR THIRD LINK KNOCKS DOWN YOUR WHOLE CASE FOR NOT SUBSIDIZING LONG-DISTANCE PASSENGER RAIL!!!!!!
Love you!
DeggestyThe first two links led to nowhere and the third was of some kind of missile defense system.
Here is the first one.
And here is the second one (the NRHS train)
I have no earthly idea what the URL for the third video was supposed to be - why, for example, it's using an 'embed' instead of '/watch' tag like the first two. (Sam, you might try posting the link again, and check it from 'Preview' to be sure it works.) But there are plenty of other 1218 videos that come up in YouTube when you choose either of the links above!
BigJim samfp1943 Here are a couple of videos that show some action for those who have never seen 12 run.. Or eve 61 or 4501.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMSzUrQ_MJg Triple header in Nov. 1991 ( Note these lciomotives are shown on the grade climbing Missionary Ridge near Chattanooga,Tn.. Three Coal Burning" locomotives TWO water tenders and a 28 car passenger train. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU1MCunoSjY NRHS Convention Train in Aug of 1991. https://www.youtube.com/embed/uVlERTFVSpo?rel=0%2a 1218 in 1987..Look at the length of train! Love the Whistle action. Sam, The first two links led to nowhere and the third was of some kind of missile defense system.
samfp1943 Here are a couple of videos that show some action for those who have never seen 12 run.. Or eve 61 or 4501.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMSzUrQ_MJg Triple header in Nov. 1991 ( Note these lciomotives are shown on the grade climbing Missionary Ridge near Chattanooga,Tn.. Three Coal Burning" locomotives TWO water tenders and a 28 car passenger train. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU1MCunoSjY NRHS Convention Train in Aug of 1991. https://www.youtube.com/embed/uVlERTFVSpo?rel=0%2a 1218 in 1987..Look at the length of train! Love the Whistle action.
Here are a couple of videos that show some action for those who have never seen 12 run.. Or eve 61 or 4501..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMSzUrQ_MJg Triple header in Nov. 1991 ( Note these lciomotives are shown on the grade climbing Missionary Ridge near Chattanooga,Tn.. Three Coal Burning" locomotives TWO water tenders and a 28 car passenger train.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU1MCunoSjY NRHS Convention Train in Aug of 1991.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/uVlERTFVSpo?rel=0%2a 1218 in 1987..Look at the length of train!
Love the Whistle action.
Sam, The first two links led to nowhere and the third was of some kind of missile defense system.
Johnny
And a very good and effective one too.
.
May the Eternal bless all of you!
JOSEPH the steam buffWill n and w 2-6-6-4 1218 be restored like the 611 as well? It only would make since to me cause they both ran together in the first steam program. If so how long will it take and will there be a fire up the 1218 campaign? If so will the new facility. Also he able to serve both of them?
Steve Lee made a trip to Roanoke in the early 2000's and inspected the 1218, what was found is that the new side sheets in the fire box were ALL tack welded into place, awaiting the full weld to take place. I also understand that she would need new front and rear tube sheets, tubes, and boiler braces. Mud ring repairs were also mentioned. I will also make known, when first restored in 1985-87, the 1218 had many parts missing from her days as a stationary boiler. I personally hope that in the coming few years a "Fire Up 1218" campaign will begin. For now, lets be happy with 611, and hope that 1218 will join one day soon. Good Luck 1218!
CwexWell Joe the simple answer is it's possible but unlikely. The 1218 needs a LOT of work and as such big $$$. I don't see the $$$ being there right now, or in the future to support a restoration and subsequent operation.
Certainly not in the immediate future, but remember it's THERE, it's more-or-less complete, so down the line anything's possible. Whoever thought a Big Boy would steam again?
Well, OK, the late Jim Boyd did. and I'll repeat his words again:
"Will a Big Boy steam again? Of course! Why? Like Mount Everest, 'because it's there!'"
Take it easy Joe, everthing we've talked about here has a correlation as to whether 1218 steams again. As you've seen, it's not going to be as simple as some might think.
Wish it were otherwise, but we've got to be realistic here.
This one's well placed to weather the storm at least no matter what happens down the line. They've carefully selected when to run to maximize the benefit for the corporation so far and show no signs of changing that and Norfolk Southern's burden isn't nearly what it once was. They're enjoying a lot of the benefit of a corporate steam program at a fraction of the involvement they once had.
Hopefully they know they have a good thing going here.
As I understand it there's a whole new generation of management at NS who have quite a bit of the railfan in them. The old hostile-to-steam crowd has passed into retirement or gone on to other things. So I don't believe there's too much to worry about concerning NS steam.
That being said, corporate sponsored steam programs, heck, corporate sponsored ANYTHINGS are evanescent, they can change when the management does. The best thing to do is express your appreciation frequently and "enjoy it while it lasts."
Leo_AmesLosing two major advocates and not having someone there to take up the reigns and champion the program certainly also played a role as you've said. This was regularly reported as one of the reasons why the program died when it did.
We might be set up for a repeat of this. Wick is likely to retire in a couple years and I don't think any coming up behind him have any great love for steam or trains in general.
Service levels on NS aren't as good as NS would like them yet they just spent a lot of time and energy supporting the Streamliners at Spencer. It would have been easy to say "we don't have time for this right now" but NS didn't. I wonder if this would be the case if Wick wasn't the CEO.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Firelock76 Well boys, it just seemed fishy to me that the steam program was cancelled before Graham Claytor's body was cold. It's like they were waiting in the wings for Mr. Secretary to pass on so they could strike. I just think it was more than a coincidence that the steam program died shortly after Graham Claytor did. Even retired, I think the "Old Man" must have been a formidable presence.
Well boys, it just seemed fishy to me that the steam program was cancelled before Graham Claytor's body was cold. It's like they were waiting in the wings for Mr. Secretary to pass on so they could strike.
I just think it was more than a coincidence that the steam program died shortly after Graham Claytor did. Even retired, I think the "Old Man" must have been a formidable presence.
Losing two major advocates and not having someone there to take up the reigns and champion the program certainly also played a role as you've said. This was regularly reported as one of the reasons why the program died when it did.
S. Connor Firelock76 It was my understanding that when the curtain fell in 1994 all the parts off 1218 were thrown in the tender, or loosely put back on, or in the case of the removed flues were shoved back in the boiler shell. As far I've heard nothing's gone missing. Hope springs eternal. So if I hit the "Powerball" this weekend... If hit hit? You'll bring back 1218? Man you would have a new best friend....... Remember ALS #12!
Firelock76 It was my understanding that when the curtain fell in 1994 all the parts off 1218 were thrown in the tender, or loosely put back on, or in the case of the removed flues were shoved back in the boiler shell. As far I've heard nothing's gone missing. Hope springs eternal. So if I hit the "Powerball" this weekend...
It was my understanding that when the curtain fell in 1994 all the parts off 1218 were thrown in the tender, or loosely put back on, or in the case of the removed flues were shoved back in the boiler shell. As far I've heard nothing's gone missing.
Hope springs eternal. So if I hit the "Powerball" this weekend...
If hit hit? You'll bring back 1218? Man you would have a new best friend.......
Remember ALS #12!
Well Mr. Connor, there'll be a catch. It'll have to have "Jersey Central Lines" with the Statue of Liberty herald painted on the tender!
Just kidding! However, not having purchased any new steam engines since 1930 the CNJ WAS considering buying articulated steam locomotives for freight service in 1946 before they decided to go diesel. We can only speculate what they might have looked like.
Norfolk Southern earned record profits and was busier than ever. I doubt many noticed or cared about the cost of the steam program when this happened.
It was the legal team that did it in. After several well publicized incidents, growing insurance premiums, and the every increasing litigious nature of our society, they didn't think it made sense when the program had been degraded to little more than a mere tourist operation giving train rides several dozen times a year with old locomotives frequently on busy mainlines that was offering little benefit to the corporation as a whole when put up against the risk.
That's why keeping it tied in with loftier goals is so critical to a program like this. Lose sight of that and it won't have long to live. Publicity, using it to help get messages out to the public like safety initiatives and the importance this industry has and will have in the future for the country, events for employees and dignitaries, tie-ins with community events, and so on is how a program like this best fits with a modern Class 1. That's something that Union Pacific has been a master at and why their steam program has been around for over half a century.
And Norfolk Southern working with partners rather than sharing the brunt of the cost and responsibility themselves also helps. Beyond the contribution of some rolling stock from groups like NRHS chapters and some minor things, Southern and then Norfolk Southern pretty much went at it alone especially with the power itself.
Now, the burden is significantly less on NS than it was before.
Paul of Covington Firelock, I kinda think it was not so much hatred of the steam program itself as it was a bunch of accountants obsessed with the bottom line. After all, they love the dollar as much as or more than we love steam.
Firelock, I kinda think it was not so much hatred of the steam program itself as it was a bunch of accountants obsessed with the bottom line. After all, they love the dollar as much as or more than we love steam.
I would opine that it wasn't so much from the finance department as it might have been from large shareholders who viewed the steam program as an expense that was reducing dividends.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
No, it wasn't meant in sarcasm. In my opinion just about anything Steve Lee has to say about big steam can probably be taken as gospel. Others many disagree but considering how long he ran the UP steam program, and successfully at that, we can be sure he knows what he's talking about.
The thing that strikes me though, and I've been wondering about this for years is, was there more than a bit of spite in the Norfolk-Southern management at the time (1994) when they cancelled the steam program? What I mean by this is not only did they end the program, they did everything humanly possible to make double-damn-sure it would NEVER come back. Closing the steam shop, selling off every piece of shop equipment they could make a dime on, selling off most of the passenger cars, and giving a command to the shop crew we used to call in the Marines "To the four winds, MARCH!"
Makes me think someone really detested the steam program and those responsible for keeping it going. You have to wonder, you know?
Not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but I assume he knows what he's talking about and that this isn't a fabrication that's erroneously credited to him. I've seen others that have said similar things as well.
Would be great if this isn't the case, but sadly, I think it's safe to take this as fact. That said, I really doubt that they have the resources or will to restore both and keep them running even if she was in similar shape as the 611. Would be nice though if she was in a similar condition that they could perhaps trade off every 15 years while the other was down for repairs, maintenance, 15 year inspection, etc.
Would keep both in steam without the full impact in time, money, and other resources they'd face if they were to try to keep them going simultaneously. Union Pacific sort of does such a thing right now as seen by 844 disappearing from 1991-1996 for a running gear overhaul and then again after 1999 when 10 of her tubes failed for a boiler and firebox overhaul from late 2001 through the end of 2004.
But her size, extra complexity, and the state she was left in would make a return much more expensive than 611's.
Well, Big Steve said it, so I guess that settles it.
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