I'm truly glad the 614 was preserved at all, so maybe I'm too picky. But I do like the original lines better.
Tom
I was able to see all the remaining C&O steam on the scrap line in Russell, KY in the 1970's. At that time C&O 614 was on the line numbered 611. Most of the cab gauges were gone as were other souvenir items. Ross Rowland acquired 614 in a trade for his American Freedom train engine Reading RR 2101. The C&O 610-614 J-3-A's were fully roller bearing equiped and were state of the art passenger power. In his rebuild Ross significantly altered the coal bunker and water tank for greater coal capacity. The changes were in keeping with the general design of the tender.
Doc
ACY614's tender was modified for the ACE tests several years ago, which seriously harmed the engine & tender's appearance
Having ridden and chased 614 in New Jersey, I'd have to say she looks great, even with a larger coal bunker. Ross did this for a good reason, and having the extra coal capacity was/is a big plus. It's not like the appearance can't be restored back to as-built, if the need and $ are there.
Not sure about the other J-3a tender, but if one existed then, you are still talking gaining ownership, which was likely more $ than modifiing the original.
On a somewhat related C&O note, I recall a conversation with a fellow who was very familiar with C&O steam. He noted that C&O 4-8-4 Greenbrier 614's tender was modified for the ACE tests several years ago, which seriously harmed the engine & tender's appearance. He told me another J-3a tender existed at the time and would have been available as a substitute. But the other tender has since been scrapped, so we are left with an aesthetically compromised 614.
Can anybody confirm or refute this?
My cousin and I grew up in Russell, KY near the yard and we would go "visit" the steamers in the dead line behind the roundhouse. If you took your camera with you the railroad dick wouldn't bother you. Grandpa was an engineer and the whole family were railroaders and he knew whose kids we were anyway. We played engineer on 1189 and the other steamers. I have some photos we took here somewhere. I also remember the switcher dragging the dead steamers around the run-around track to be scrapped. I remember being stunned by that, as it had never occurred to me that they would be gone.
Leo_Ames ACY Numbers 2770 and 2781 were also set aside for preservation, but I have no information on their disposition. Number 2701 was donated to Buffalo, New York, but was scrapped due to damage. What's particularly unfortunate with these two was that they didn't meet their demise until the 1970's. A date where it was all but shameful that such a fate was allowed to happen. K-2 2-8-2 1189 met a similar fate.
ACY Numbers 2770 and 2781 were also set aside for preservation, but I have no information on their disposition. Number 2701 was donated to Buffalo, New York, but was scrapped due to damage.
What's particularly unfortunate with these two was that they didn't meet their demise until the 1970's. A date where it was all but shameful that such a fate was allowed to happen. K-2 2-8-2 1189 met a similar fate.
Firelock76 Lucky guy, I wish my Grandma's house had a steam railroad in the backyard! No matter, her coal furnace was fascinating enough!
Lucky guy, I wish my Grandma's house had a steam railroad in the backyard! No matter, her coal furnace was fascinating enough!
You were obviously not responsble for feeding that coal furnace or removing its ashes as I was (at about age 9) when Dad was working away from home for weeks at a time. Installing an oil burner was one of the nicest things that happened in those days.
ChuckAllen, TX
For anyone who is interested, I have created a community page for 2776.
https://www.facebook.com/co2776
Here is a pic I have of 2776 in service.
2776 was placed in the City park in 1960 I believe. One story I was told the C&O rebuilt / refurbished / reconditioned (not sure of right wording) so that these locomotives were ready for use in the event of another world war. The C&O did not want to get caught with not enough locomtives in the event of another war so these locomotives could be pulled out of city parks etc and put back into service. Therefore the C&O were looking for places to put them.
Anyone able to veryfy this line of thinking?
In regards to getting a B&O locomotive, I understand it was private citizens who securred getting 2776 not the City, so no doubt any amount of $$ was too much.
I don't know the date of the donation of 2776 to Washington Court House, but I think all of B&O's steamers may have been scrapped by then. So there may not have been a B&O steamer to donate.
In any event, the B&O's bean counters insisted on getting every last penny of scrap value out of their steam engines. That pressure is probably the reason no EM-1's (as well as other notable classes) were saved. The story might have been different if Washington Court House had offered to buy an engine at then-current scrap prices. Back then I recall calculating the scrap value of an N&W class A. It was about $10,000. If my figures are right, Wash. C.H. probably could have bought a nice E-27ca Consolidation or Q-4 Mikado for about $5,000. That probably seemed like a lot of money then.
Yes C&O 2776 in Washington Court House. As the story goes the B&O would not donate a loco for display in WCH. A local person was able to persuade the C&O to donate one instead.
B&O, PRR and DT&I came through WCH. There is a B&O caboose sitting on the otherside of 2776.
BaltACDWhy would a NKP locomotive end up in Washington Court House, OH when the road didn't operate there?
It's not an NKP Berkshire, it is a C&O Kanawha. Note that the headlight is on the pilot beam. Otherwise, the designs are very similar, especially when the headlight is placed on the smokebox front a la C&O 2716 when she was in SOU excursion service.
Balt:
The engine at Washington Court House is not NKP. She is C&O K-4 2776. C&O didn't operate into Washington Court House either, but B&O did, and I speculate that this was about as close to a B&O loco as the town could get. I know it's a stretch. Actually, of the 12 existing C&O K-4's, seven (more than half) are displayed outside C&O territory.
2700 Dennison, Ohio (PRR station)
2705 Baltimore (B&O Museum)
2707 Union, IL (Illinois Ry Museum, on a former C&NW branch)
2716 New Haven, KY (Kentucky RR Museum, on a former L&N line)
2727 Kirkwood, MO (Nat. Mus. of Transp., on a former M.P. line)
2736 Green Bay, WI, (Nat. RR Mus. Green Bay was served by GB&W,
MILW, and C&NW)
2776 Washington Court House, OH
The two surviving P.M. Berkshires are in Michigan, which is appropriate.
Of the six surviving NKP Berkshires, four are located in NKP-served towns. The two others are:
NKP 757 at the RR Museum of PA at Strasburg, PA (NKP did, after all,
operate in PA)
NKP 759 at Steamtown, Scranton, PA
If I recall correctly, isn't Hoosier Valley RR restoring a C&O #2789 "Kanawha" to operation? From what I remeber it has been a very long term project.
Anyone know much more? I hope they are still moving forward. Thanks,
S. Connor
Why would a NKP locomotive end up in Washington Court House, OH when the road didn't operate there?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Here is the one located in Washington Court House where I live. Desperately in need of a coat of paint, it also has parts missing.
Firelock76 You make some good points PM, VERY good points indeed.
You make some good points PM, VERY good points indeed.
Thank you Firelock! I tend to get a little overly passionate about trains, huh? It's in the blood.
CSSHEGEWISCH Let's get serious here. I would hardly consider a Van Sweringen 2-8-4 to be in the same league as the aforementioned national treasures.
Let's get serious here. I would hardly consider a Van Sweringen 2-8-4 to be in the same league as the aforementioned national treasures.
Im being very serious. Statue of liberty didnt build this country. Rairoads did. Mt Rushmore just sits there, a locomotive brings everything you ever needed to your table, home, or work. Railroads brought our soldiers and troops to where they were needed to fight for freedom. The Declaration is only a document proclaiming it.
If they arent treasures, then why did we save them. Place them in museums? Railroads gave us everything from fast food to time zones to the stock market. All major facets of life today. No national monument ever did that.
I have no problem calling a locomotive a national treaure. Without them, this country would still be on dirt roads, living in log cabins.
Some might not see it as i do (understandable), but they are indeed - treasures. And since the whole country can appreciate them... that makes them 'national' treasures.
I think the Statue of Liberty looks good in her oxide coat. Of course, I have never had objections to the color of cupric oxide; I do not like the looks of iron oxide, though.
Johnny
PM Railfan I sometimes wonder what our other memorials to society would look like if left in this situation. Can you imagine Miss Liberty in a rust color? Or Abrahams nose falling off Mt Rushmore? Poor mans artwork all over the original Declaration of Independence?
I sometimes wonder what our other memorials to society would look like if left in this situation. Can you imagine Miss Liberty in a rust color? Or Abrahams nose falling off Mt Rushmore? Poor mans artwork all over the original Declaration of Independence?
Yes, try this link to the C&O site: http://www.chessieshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=51&products_id=2858
.
For further info you may want to talk to the folks at the C&OHS. They put out a catalog with all kinds of C&O stuff for your walls.
Kanawhas (pron: Canna - wha [2 sylabels, not 3]) seemed to fair the best of any steam loco type. There are 12 of them. NKP Berkshires are second. True testament to the Van Sweringen design (AMC/Lima)!
I miss seeing the one in Richmond Va. I made sure everytime i headed south on I95 i was in the slow lane so as to get the best view of her. Havent seen her since they moved her to the science museum.
Took some time last year to poke around the one in Newport News Va.. Oh my, she is looking bad. Stuck out by herself in the park, far away from the main office, she is constantly riddled with trash and "poor mans art" (you folks call it grafitti).
Yes, I had heard that these locos had been scrapped; but I had no documentation, so I included them in the list, hoping someone would provide the info.
The loss of the last C&O K-2 Mikado was particularly sad because there are no others in existence, and the K-2 and K-3 Mikes had a particular C&O look that we won't see again.
ACYNumbers 2770 and 2781 were also set aside for preservation, but I have no information on their disposition. Number 2701 was donated to Buffalo, New York, but was scrapped due to damage.
Vbeach, the Richmond Kanawha has been cosmetically restored and is now displayed at the Science Museum of Virginia, the old RF&P Broad Street Station.
The downside is it's behind fences on the musum property to you have to pay admission to get near it. Maybe that's not such a downside, at least it keeps vandals away.
Aside from the sheet metal that would have covered the asbestos boiler lagging being missing it's pretty complete. A restoration wouldn't be an impossibility but it would be costly, considering it's been on outdoor display for 50-plus years. And being buried in CSX territory I don't know where you'd run it either.
Wow, that's a lot. Thanks!
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