Steam that could have been

[dinodanthetrainman]

Something about this reminds me about THE HENSCHEL TURBINE TENDER OF 1927

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/germturb/germturb.htm

[Anonymous]

Turbine steam is probably the ultimate "would-have-been" steam. Unfortunately, turbine steam came too late in the game. Maybe would have been popular with passenger trains, if it had come into the picture in the 30's or earlier. Any new advances in steam after WWII would not have made it very far, especially when steam aged into the 1950's.  GO N&W STEAM, FOUGHT UNTIL THE END!!!

[dinodanthetrainman]

This might be a possibility

Combined Cycle steam and Steam Turbine Locomotive 452639389

The cylinder blocks appear to be oversize for the amount of TE that can be practically generated with eight drivers.  That is partially because of heavy insulation around as much of the cylinder block as can be achieved -- you want to keep the temperature in the wall metal adjacent to the bore at as high a temperature as possible, so that thermal cycling due to steam is kept entirely above gas-phase transition at all times.

Thank you Overmod for all of the helpful advice.

I found this

But that is that is a nuff

[dinodanthetrainman]

No but this is a little closer to a possibility.

The cylinder blocks appear to be oversize for the amount of TE that can be practically generated with eight drivers.  That is partially because of heavy insulation around as much of the cylinder block as can be achieved -- you want to keep the temperature in the wall metal adjacent to the bore at as high a temperature as possible, so that thermal cycling due to steam is kept entirely above gas-phase transition at all times.

Thank you Overmod  for all the helpful advice.

[dinodanthetrainman]

Is this what a Combined Cycle steam and Steam Turbine Locomotive would have looked liked?

[dinodanthetrainman]

All of the wheels are powered.

carnej1

When would this hypothetically been built?

carnej1

Built in 1956. 

carnej1

Also, the Jawn Henry (as well as the C&O steam turbine's had the coal bunker at the front of the locomotive ahead of the cab. Why the change in configuration?

The the hole idea of this locomotive is that this configuration might be cheaper to maintain.

[dinodanthetrainman]

This is a passenger locomotive the freight locomotives would be black but would still have the gold stripes like the alternative design for the k2s.

Indeed I already know that even on this smaller frame a cab with a long nose and short nose would work better. the short nose with the toilet (laboratory bathroom)  would be in the back and long nose with the (starting at the cab) boiler, steam turbines,  DB resistance grids and cooling fans would be in the front.

[carnej1]

dinodanthetrainman

This thread is for discussing unconventional' advances in steam motive power from the late '40s on or

any conventional advances that do not fit in Juniatha's what steam we haven't seen.

This might have been Norfolk & Western's answer to not being able to get parts from Westinghouse  for the TE1 I call it the TE-S1 or Jawn Henry Junior JHJ.

The TE1( www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail…. would have been the first Practical Steam Turbine Electric Locomotive which would had worked out all of other teething troubles of the Norfolk & Western's Jawn Henry except for the main reason why it was scraped.) This was the cost to rebuild and maintain its drive train and giant articulated frame and not having parts supplied by Westinghouse. see other teething troubles of the Norfolk & Western's Jawn Henry at [link] Built in 1956.  The TE-S1 Jawn Henry Junior prototype did away with that by placing a marine type water tube boiler, the Turbine mounted horizontally and the cab on one unit and water and coal on the other. The first unit would be built on a standard diesel locomotive frame and wheel sets having a traditional steam locomotive cab.  The second unit is a traditional steam locomotive tender but having a laboratory at the cab end. This design calls for the heat from dynamic braking to be used to help heat the boiler. This is a real technology that belongs to T.W. Blasingame, Inc (Go to www.trainweb.org/tusp/news/Ste… for the PDF.) and Harry Valentine (Go to www.internationalsteam.co.uk/t… or www.sa-transport.co.za/harry_v… ) There is a heat sink on the front of the locomotive for when the locomotive's economizer, boiler and the thermal energy storage are at capacity.

When would this hypothetically been built?

Why is there a "laboratory on the tender"?

Also, the Jawn Henry (as well as the C&O steam turbine's had the coal bunker at the front of the locomotive ahead of the cab. Why the change in configuration?

[Overmod]

A question about this layout:  The B&W boiler's ash-handling arrangements dropped close to rail level, which in this locomotive would require it to be located considerably forward of the cab.  This implies that the turbine/generator is either between the boiler and the cab, or forward where the various DB systems are located.  (I am presuming that 'heat sink' in your description means 'standard' DB resistance grids and cooling fans).  Where does the rather substantial steam exhaust plenum from the turbine go to get past the boiler for exhaust?  Some more packaging thinking might be in order -- the arrangement on the V1/TE1, weird as it was, was not arrived at by accident or compromise...

The boiler on the TE1 was designed to be partially 'suspended' from the rather substantial truss framing in the carbody, to accommodate thermal expansion.  How do you provide this in the rear-cab design and still have reasonable forward visibility?

If the tender trucks are not motored, you are throwing at least some effectiveness away.  Six motors on a locomotive this size, in the Fifties, is not really 'there', especially if you're not using Westinghouse hexapoles.  (And the generator reliability, and excessive electrical loading even of those robust motors, were two of the principal 'teething' problems on the TE1; while GE would probably have been able to solve the generator issues, they would NOT likely have had anything as robust in the motor department... 

What in heaven's name is the 'laboratory' for?

Can we have a diagram that shows how the internal components are ordered and carried?

[friend611]

One question. Knowing about N&W steam as I do, is there a reason this locomotive is shown in passenger colors (like the J)? Is this prototype meant for passenger service? If not, usually N&W locomotives were painted normal black with gold lettering which was the "freight" scheme, as used on the original Jawn Henry.
lois
N&W steam historian

[dinodanthetrainman]

This thread is for discussing unconventional' advances in steam motive power from the late '40s on.

Tho you can post anything to do with improving steam locomotives paleofuture of steam locomotives, and passenger trains pre Amtrack and you can post about unconventional steam locomotives and stillborn locomotives.