I have worked with a railroad group in Florida, where we had an excellent working relationship with CSX. At that point they did move historic rail equipment at no cost. They provided us with their safety cars and locomotive's for display purposes. We geared our events around educational programs, and with CSX help, thier willingness to move our equipment and provide some of thier own equipment put on a great public event and brought rail safety to the fore front. It was a win win win situation. It help the community, our organization and CSX public relations. Thier was no steam but I know many kids got an opportunity to ride a passenger train in thier home town and learned how not to become a treaspasser, some may have become railroaders or rail fans.
The only way this situation will change on any railroad, big or small is to provide the back drop of serving thier communities, providing an educational objective and meeting thier own corporate goal of increasing safety awareness.
Don't accuse CSX of being a bad corporate citizen because they took our steam trains away. Rather find some common ground and build upon it. Hopefully things will improve.
CSX has hosted steam, but it's been a while, hence this discussion.
As of now CSX policy is no antique railroad equipment on CSX lines at all, at any time. An exception is made for privately owned rail coaches that have been modified to Amtrak standards and are part of Amtrak consists.
Firelock76 Interesting that Mr. Willison brought up the subject of airlines. About 20 years ago Delta was operating a restored DC-3 complete with vintage Delta Airlines markings. Around the same time Lufthansa was operating a Junkers JU-52. Both were touring the country as heritage units, I know, I saw them. Haven't heard from either lately, so I don't know if the respective programs are still active. At any rate, it HAS been done.
Interesting that Mr. Willison brought up the subject of airlines.
About 20 years ago Delta was operating a restored DC-3 complete with vintage Delta Airlines markings. Around the same time Lufthansa was operating a Junkers JU-52. Both were touring the country as heritage units, I know, I saw them.
Haven't heard from either lately, so I don't know if the respective programs are still active.
At any rate, it HAS been done.
And at any rate, CSX has hosted steam...
An "expensive model collector"
Cool! Or in the case of Lufthansa, prima!
As far as I know, both of them still have such a program.
In fact, Lufthansa should be nearing the completion of restoring a Lockheed Constellation to add to their fleet (Or more correctly, half restoration and half modernization, since they're making sacrifices out of necessity in order to carry the public and for maintainability; although the original engines are being kept).
I wonder why air lines don't fly or develop a heritage program. Most likely that thier share holders care more about the bottom line than inspiring a little kid. When it comes to getting political action on thier part they have have well paid lobbyist to do the job.
I wish CSX had a steam program, or kcs or BNSF. Be nice if united flew 707 or DC 7 for air lines fans
But corporation's have a obligation to thier share holders. Not to rail fans or little kids, which often they view as trespassers.
Thier are legitimate means of trying to to get railroads to sponser programs. Consistent whining about it is one if them
Or the fallout might produce something positive instead.
Sounds like a lot of wishful thinking to me. CSX management is probably going to be averse to sponsoring a steam program for a long time as part of the fallout from the attempted takeover by The Children's Fund.
Ditto on the C&O 1309 move.
I think positive messages can go a long way. Railfans are part of a population surrounding the railroad’s infrastructure. They can be working in the police or fire stations, mayor’s office, public works, permitting office, legislator’s office, or schools. Heck, they might just be more forgiving of a blocked railcrossing or a loud whistle in the middle of the night.
All it might take is to make a deep impression on one person in one of those offices to get back the money you invested. A mayor or legislator might pass a favorable bill, a permit might come a little easier, or a kid might be inspired to make railroading a lifelong job.
(-not to mention it might dampen some of the negative news like the oil trains)
CSX did help out with the move of C&O 1309 to the Western Maryland Scenic. Maybe that was CSX taking a first step to some sort of steam program.
If CSX had a steam program, NC&StL 4-8-4 #576 located in NASHVILLE, TN and A&WP 4-6-2 #290 located at the Southeastern Railway Museum near ATLANTA, GA would be excellent steam locomotives to pull excursions on CSX tracks. Both the NASHVILLE, CHATTANOOGA & ST. LOUIS and the ATLANTA & WEST POINT railroads are now part of CSX. David Briel
I completley agree with your view on CSX. Same words I would've used. CSX is a business focused on serving its customers to the best of their ability. For the people freaking out because they don't have Heritage Units and that all their engines look the same, that is most likely the goal of CSX. Yes, it's nice to have a cool and diverse spread of paint schemes, but even though the boxcar logo says "How Tomorrow Moves," the uniform look of the dark blue CSX fleet says "We Mean Business" to its current and potential customers. Don't get me wrong, I love the Heritage units, but you have to respect CSX's way of doing things.
One should never downgrade the value of a good opinion among the public in general, not just a particular firm's and/or an industry's customers.
CSSHEGEWISCH Let's be honest. UP has a steam program, but how often do the Northern and the Challenger actually operate? I won't argue that the program generates a lot of favorable publicity and corporate goodwill, but as mentioned previously, it is doubtful that it has much of an effect on the decisions of traffic managers.
Let's be honest. UP has a steam program, but how often do the Northern and the Challenger actually operate? I won't argue that the program generates a lot of favorable publicity and corporate goodwill, but as mentioned previously, it is doubtful that it has much of an effect on the decisions of traffic managers.
I don't know how often UP runs their steam engines, but beyond the PR value of the program, the UP certainly seems to place a very high value on preserving the history of the railroad. The UP has quite a few pieces of historical equipment stored in the roundhouse at Cheyenne either for use or later restoration. They've also marked historically significant units still in use for future preservation and/or donation (the last two unpatched CNW engines come to mind).
I'd say it's even harder to place an ROI value on a corporation preserving its own history than determining what return the UP gets from its steam program. Yet, the company has devoted quite a few resources to doing just that.
I wonder if the CSX derailments are the work of, for lack of a better term, the "ghost of John Snow" and all those years of deferred maintnance on CSX infrastructure? I know CSX MOW people have been working valiantly the past several years to put it all right, but they can't do everything at once.
Some CSX people have said the years the accountants were running the company were an absolute disaster, "professionals know that sometimes you have to spend money to make money, accountants think you make money by NOT spending money!"
Just speculating.
Well the rate that csx is crashing oil trains, they may want to consider starting a good will steam program so they can be in the news for a positive reason
Good choice either way, well done.
Mark,
When looking for a transportation stock to add to my portfolio; I looked at several railroads. At the time CSX and UP were about equal in my analysis. Their PE's were similar as was their dividend. I chose UP because of their support of steam.
KCSfan Remember, years ago, when American President Lines requested a steam hauled double stack train on the U.P. railroad? You bet corporate america is at least aware of the great p.r. generated and they will use it when appropriate. Firelock76 Let's be fair here. CSX is in the business of moving stuff from point A to point B in the most efficient and profitable manner possible. They're not in business to entertain railfans, or the general public for that matter. It's their road and their decision and I can live with that. So is the UP but they get a fantastic amount of good will and positive media coverage out of their steam program. These are invaluable assets to any corporation and the UP is smart enough to recognize that. I don't doubt for a minute that some shippers favor the UP over other comparable transportation alternatives as a result of the steam program. Mark
Remember, years ago, when American President Lines requested a steam hauled double stack train on the U.P. railroad? You bet corporate america is at least aware of the great p.r. generated and they will use it when appropriate.
Firelock76 Let's be fair here. CSX is in the business of moving stuff from point A to point B in the most efficient and profitable manner possible. They're not in business to entertain railfans, or the general public for that matter. It's their road and their decision and I can live with that.
Let's be fair here. CSX is in the business of moving stuff from point A to point B in the most efficient and profitable manner possible. They're not in business to entertain railfans, or the general public for that matter. It's their road and their decision and I can live with that.
So is the UP but they get a fantastic amount of good will and positive media coverage out of their steam program. These are invaluable assets to any corporation and the UP is smart enough to recognize that. I don't doubt for a minute that some shippers favor the UP over other comparable transportation alternatives as a result of the steam program.
Mark
Could it be that with coal revenues continuing to decline and lay offs at it is corporate headquarters that this might be a difficult time to reinstate a steam program.
I understand if CSX dose not want to run Steam on their busy main lines like the Chicago line, but what about smaller less important lines like the New Rock Sub. I think Iowa Interstate would allow them to turn the train in Bureau Junction the only proble would be dealing with Metra but I think they would work around it.
After the various happenings involving The Children's Fund, CSX is going to be understandably cautious about spending money on anything that doesn't make a positive contribution to the bottom line. Consequently, it's going to be a long time (if ever) before CSX does something similar to NS or UP.
The CSX website (www.csx.com) has an option on the top of the screen where you can e-mail comments. Look for "Contact Us." It's a bit confusing to use but not too bad. I've already sent them a "Thank You!" on this subject, it'd be nice iif everyone else did as well.
If you'd like to see CSX run historic equipment on their lines this could very well be how it starts.
Thank you CSX! She was looking pretty rough, and lonely. A very pretty locomotive.
ACL YEAH!
Concerning CSX and steam...
If you check page 62 of the January 2014 issue of "Trains" you'll see CSX is making a contribution to the preservation of Atlantic Coast Line Pacific 1504, on outdoor static display in Jacksonville, Fl.
Everyone should say a heartfelt "Thank You!" to CSX. Remember, they don't have to do this.
Kyle CSX seems to be trying to get the publics attention, they recent spent some money on TV commercials. Plus CSX didn't get any steam locomotives, UP and NS had the steam locomotives.
CSX seems to be trying to get the publics attention, they recent spent some money on TV commercials. Plus CSX didn't get any steam locomotives, UP and NS had the steam locomotives.
Kyle,
CSX
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
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