I hope it's true, but I haven't seen anything 'official' from UP yet, there's nothing on their website about it.
I worry it's a little like how this time of year, around baseball's winter meetings, you get all kind of off-the-wall rumors and speculation about trades. Someone on a sports-talk radio station in Boston says it would be great if the Red Sox could acquire Joe Mauer. A couple of hours later, someone on MLB tv reports a rumor of the Red Sox being in negotiations to acquire Joe, and a couple of hours after that ESPN is reporting Joe Mauer's been sold to the Red Sox for $50-million and a year's supply of popcorn.
At the risk of being overly suspicious... Did April First come a bit early?
I'll believe it when Big Boy comes over Tennessee Pass on its way to the Saluda Grade.
It's a good thought, but do the 844 or 3985 have names? I say just dedicate the loco to him. That would give Steve the honor, and keep the loco on the same level as the Challenger and Northern. (naming it would be wierd...)
Where would they get the boiler rebuilt to the latest Federal regulations?
It would likely require a full complete replacement to meet those new standards. Thats no easy feat and has been the deathnail of many steam restoration programs. I remember many years ago somewhere a quote that $5 million dollars would be required to get a Big Boy operational, I thought that was ridiculously low, I figure between $15-20M would be a more reasonable expectation.
BTW for comparisons, the British Peppercorn A-1 Tornado cost $5M to build from scratch, and that was a much smaller Pacific, a Big Boy is a whole different league of locomotive.
One other question, where would they turn it around? a custom wye would need to be built somewhere as there are no longer any turntables big enough ( or simply left) that could accomplish that. So as much as this idea has appeal, it has some very real challenges to overcome before it happens.
Have fun with your trains
True, it does sound optimistic and questionable. I wonder, since a 150th only rolls around once, and then only after a long time in modern history, that they don't have some grandstanding to do that would be great if they could show this immense Leviathan under her own power for the first time in 65 years, wowing the attentive public, and providing thrills to steam fans for the next six or seven years until it is retired once again.
Crandell
I'm of the opinion that this falls under the heading of wishful thinking. The question that nobody is asking is "What does UP get out of it?". 844 and 3985 already provide immense p/r value to Union Pacific and it's getting more difficult and expensive to maintain them in running condition. I don't think that rebuilding a Big Boy is going to generate enough press in the world at large to justify the expense.
To Thomas 9011: Yes, I guess cutting the rods so the pistons don't move without lube makes sense, especially when at the time they thought there was no way the locomotive was ever going to be run again. Oh well, none of us are issued crystal balls when we're born, and we've got no way of guessing the future.
Thomas 9011They cut the rods of steam locomotives so the pistons don't seize up and lock the wheels up. With out steam there is no lubrication. The alternative is to remove the side rods which is what most people do now when towing dead steam locomotives...
Well, actually, no, I believe you're confusing removing the piston rods with removing the main rods.
Simply unkeying the piston rod from the crosshead and running the whole piston-rod-and-piston assembly all the way forward in the cylinder may provide enough clearance to move the locomotive without any further distress. With more work, the cylinder heads could be pulled and the pistons extracted, but there's a lot more work involved, including dressing the end of the rod and keeping things parallel so you don't mess up the seal at the rear cylinder head.
You will still need to provide lube to the crossheads, but the Big Boy uses a mechanical lubricator and there is no problem assuring this even without steam to the locomotive.
You do have to disable the valve drive, usually most easily by removing the eccentric rod, since there's no atomized lube to those pistons either.
Taking the main rod down was a usual method in 'classic steam' days for recovering a road failure, as it was relatively quick and allowed the locomotive to 'work steam' on the other side (the valve drive being disconnected and valve blocked at mid to keep the loose piston from slamming back and forth) to get it off the main as expediently as possible. It is NOT imho the preferred way to move a locomotive, especially over long distances, as a bobweight equal to the rotating mass of the rod plus the calculated percentage of reciprocating mass for overbalance needs to be provided on the main pin. (Avoid this and you will hammer the track, surprisingly heavily at a surprisingly low speed!)
Might also be mentioned that handling the removed rods themselves is a massive task (pun intended) on large modern power, especially complicated (though not in the Big Boys' case, obviously) when roller bearings are involved.
Just to clarify the point: the only requirement for steam is to atomize heavy cylinder lube and spread the resulting 'fog' over the cylinder walls. In the absence of hot steam that has to be well-sealed by the rings, there isn't any need for steam oil, and some method of providing temporary 'spray nozzles' for light oil that would keep the weight-bearing parts of the cylinder lubricated would not be difficult to design or provide... at least on preserved steam power.
RME
I was chit chatting with some people today who have inside knowledge of this project and I can confirm that this is indeed a project of the UP along with some other group who wants to fund it. I tried to get what I could but they are staying tight lipped for now. They said it had something to do with the 150th anniversary of the driving of the golden spike in Utah and there was big plans in 2019 for the celebration.
They cut the rods of steam locomotives so the pistons don't seize up and lock the wheels up. With out steam there is no lubrication. The alternative is to remove the side rods which is what most people do now when towing dead steam locomotives.
I saw 4018 in Dallas about 15 or so years ago, at the Fairgrounds location. It looked well cared for and in very good exterior condition. The only things wrong i could see were the piston rods had been cut. Why? your guess is as good as mine. To make it easier to move "dead in tow"?
By the way, if you've never stood next to a Big Boy when you do the size of the thing will take your breath away. I'd ridden behind the Norfolk & Western Class A 1218, a big engine in it's own right, but the Dallas Big Boy made it look like a dwarf!
Of couse, that just shows you what geniuses N&W had working for them, getting that much power in such a small package.
joseywales We been talking about this all day on the http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/11285375699604080/page/1..back in the late 90's early 2000 the rumors where flying about restoring the bigboy for a movie....Plus Id called it wright about them trying to get the one in CA..
We been talking about this all day on the http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/displayForumTopic/content/11285375699604080/page/1..back in the late 90's early 2000 the rumors where flying about restoring the bigboy for a movie....Plus Id called it wright about them trying to get the one in CA..
Joseywales;
I believe it was about 1998 when some movie producer/director (?) wanted to use the 4018 UPRR 4-8-8-4 for a production and was talking of moving it to somewhere around Sherman,Tx. for the movie. That conversation seems to go away pretty quickly, I would suspect the shear $$$$$ dollars involved in first of all moving a 1 million pound locomotive, [At that time it was displayed at the Texas State Fairgrtound, in Dallas], and then making cosmetic (?) repairs probably stunned the movie dudes?
No of course the 4018 is displayed in the 'Museum of the American Railroads' which is now relocating to its new venue in Frisco,Tx. I think it was given an overhaul just before its service life ended in 1992 (?) So you would suspect that it might be in somewhat better condition that some other possible candidates(?).
But then the TrainsNewswire article previously mentioned indicated that the subject of the negotiation was a Big Boy 4014 owned currently bey a Southern California Railroad Club around Pomona, Ca. Apparently, the spokespersons are trying to NOT stir up a lot of angst where this possibility might happen. As I previously stated in the original post. This has sort of been the 'Holy Grail' of railfans for a long time. And particularly enticing is the fact that the UPRR may be heavily involved in the mix, and even considering the possibility.
Similarly, as another poster stated, we both had heard Steve Lee negatively endorse the conversation of having a remaining Big Boy back in service. I would be fraught with problems running such a large engine around,las is done with the 3985, or even the 844, Clearance issues could be problematic in some areas; Remember in '92 when the 3985 clipped a coal hopper on CSX over in Eastern Kentucky? I would suspect not much more than the pre-planning that takes place before a run is planned (clearance and obsticales surveys by Steam Crew) for either of the current big steam locomotives.
Lots of us sure hope that the UPRR can pull this off ! Personally, I'd love to be trackside when one of those 4000's roll by.
I'm reminded of the words of the late Jim Boyd: "Will a Big Boy run again? Of course! Why? Like Mount Everest, because it's there!"
I'll still be keeping a "wait and see" attitude on this. but oh wow....
That is exciting news indeed! A big boy isn't much different than a challenger. I am sure it is well with in the capabilities of the UP steam shop, and it would probably get restored a lot sooner than most people would think. They could use the tender from the 844 or the 3985 as they are both ready to go. That alone would cut down a considerable amount of time and money.
With all due respect to Mr Steve lee who I have met and talked with on many occasions. What he said 20 years ago simply isn't relevant today and it wasn't even that relevant when he said it. He complained about not having any turntables to turn locomotives on. With the exception of the turntable in Cheyenne, all the steam trips from Cheyenne do not use turntables to get the train going in the other direction. They use Y's. Running a big boy wouldn't be any different than running a challenger when it comes to turning the locomotive around. I think Steve said what he said probably because he didn't want more work and responsibility to deal with.
He also cited the million plus pounds the locomotive weighed. The locomotive may weight a lot but it is also as long as two modern day diesel locomotives. The tons per axle on the drivers of a big boy is actually the same of a SD40-2. So if you are a rail joint it wouldn't feel any different having a big boy running you over, or a SD40-2. The rail today is far superior then that over 20 years ago with rail joints eliminated.
My general feelings about this news is to take it with a grain of salt. I do believe the Big boy will run again as well as the Allegheny one day. I think for some people it is just too tempting to have the bragging rights of operating the Worlds biggest steam locomotive. I also believe there is a great deal of money to be made by running excursions. Even at 300 dollars a person, a 20 car train would be sold out in a matter of weeks. Add DVD sales, souvenirs, T-shirts, etc and what ever money you put into the steam locomotive would probably pay for itself in less than a year.
He also thought that restoration of a Big Boy was something that belonged in the dream's of foamers and not reality.
I don't think it's a complete coincidence that this is coming to light in 2012 with him already in retirement. He seemed to think any proposal to resurrect a Big Boy was nonsense not worth pursuing during his time with the Union Pacific steam program.
He certainly played a large role in getting the steam program to where it is today, but I imagine this step if it comes to fruition is due to someone else (Even though Steve Lee is greatly responsible for the state the steam program is in today, of course)..
It'd be fantastic if it happens, but I'll keep a "wait and see" attitude for now.
If it DOES happen, they should name the resurrected "Big Boy" the "Steve Lee." He MADE the UP steam program what it is today.
In the TRAINS Newswire date Dec 7, Pomona, Ca. :
There is a story that the owners of Big Boy 4014 have been approached about a deal to get their previously donated Big Boy (in 1962) back into the UP's Steam program.
It would take a major rebuild, certainly involving years to get her bacK into operations....If it did come to fruition! A sort of 'Holy Grail' for rail buffs, all over the world... The Newswire story says all contacts are currently just preliminary. What a thing to contemplate!
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