Here is the scoop from the festival's promoter:
Thanks for the post, its ashame BNSF turned the trip down, but you can understand their reasons of not wanting steam on their Transcon. Hopefully we will see the 3751 moving around in 2011 even if it's just within So Cal.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/golden_state_rails/sets/72157625569521197/
Cajon
The announcement says "we were told that BNSF would 'likely' approve our requests."
Did this trip move beyond the "likely" stage before ticket sales started?
OK even with an increase in traffic, Amtrack will STILL run. With the proper planning running of 3751 should not take any extra time, correct? Running a train is running a train. Other issue , railfans. As railfans we still must obey the law. One of which is NO TRESSPASSING!!!. Railroads are dangerous and a tresspasser may become injured of even killed . Anyone tresspasing on RR property is doing so at their own risk and deserves whatever he gets. Really a few RR police on overtime should not be a problem though. And really "management time" come on here. running a train is running a train is running a train! Sure everyone will be more aware of the special nature of the event, but there isn't really any reason to dwell on it, run it as a normal train!
Certainly a disappointment to the 3751 fans, but you gotta remember, it's BNSF's railroad.
I'm with Mike. I still think they could do it but I guess I'm in the minority. If the guy at the top would have enough manhood to do it, it would be done. I am not sure why the RR feels it has to have RR police cover every mile. They could run it right behind an Amtrak train and that would be a window that would have to be open anyway. The locomoitive was built to pull passenger trains as speed and has a good record. The RR could also run it during downtime, say around the 4th of July. Some managers would have to be out but, hey, when I worked management, I had to work if the boss said so, and I didn't get paid overtime. But the locomotive may still get to Rock Island as Jason has suspended the train but NOT canceled it and is still working on a solution, even if just the locomotive gets there. It would be nice to have a third alternative to BNSF and UP. And I'm sure the utility companies ofen wish that too. I can now see why some shippers have cases before the Surface Transportation Board. It's a oligopoly and that is also dangerous because what few parties there are, they do what the others do without fear of competition or loss of customers. Bad precedent.
You are wrong. Diesels can run al the way. Steam needs watering and greasing on average every hundred miles. Want to take a 1950 car out and run it across the desert at even 40 mph. If itt breaks down are you going to NAPA for parts? What if a drive rod or bearing goes and it can't be moved. How many bridges have been downrated.since steam? How far has it been run previously so that it can run that far? What contingencies exist for maintenance and what if it derails? Who is going to run it that knows the route? The average en.gineer age who drove steam s well into his 80s. Monumental idea. Monumental logistics and very costly to all.
ATSF ran 3751 a number of years ago from California to Chicago and return. It was known as the 'Death March' - Figure about 3 crew districts per day, then rest the crew and service the engine. Just look at the daily progress of the 4449/Freedom Train in the mid 70's. Just running the engine 'light' took BN about 2 days to get from Omaha to Chicago.
I would love to see 3751 make the trip, but I also realize that the logistics of the trip are rather harsh. UP does a great job with their two steamers, and has lot's of experience at it - but again does not make spectacular progress moving these engines around their system.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Well, than, we might as well resign ourselves to the fact that what happened with the 4449 in 2009 will never happen again. Everyone is convinced that it just can't be done.
That's not the point. The point is it is not ridng the interstate and pulling into a gas station. It takes an organzed and detailed plan and even under the best of conditions is disruptive so don't blame BNSF fo saying no to a group of ameteurs.
ndbprr That's not the point. The point is it is not ridng the interstate and pulling into a gas station. It takes an organzed and detailed plan and even under the best of conditions is disruptive so don't blame BNSF fo saying no to a group of ameteurs.
Still, it would have been cool!
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I take it that's why they can't or don't want to deal with Amtrak and the passenger trains are typically late?
wabash2800 I take it that's why they can't or don't want to deal with Amtrak and the passenger trains are typically late?
3751 would probably require a lot more en route maintenance and support than the Southwest Chief. The Southwest Chief also would, as a whole, maintain track speed better than 3751.
Given a choice every rr would probably tell Amtrak to take a hike. Not easy to do with every agency you deal with is federal as is Amtrak.
How about a creative solution by taking the road less taken? Really, BNSF and UP are the only alternatives to get the train past the continental divide, there simply are no other tracks, but who said that it needs to stay on the Transcon all the time?
The fact is that the train would only need to be on the transcon partially. In california until the point where there's a connection with the Arizona and California - then take that to the peavine and hop north back to the transcon. Then at Albuquerque take the Raton Pass route which is devoid of anything but Amtrak. Now that takes you up to Kansas, and at this point there are enough myriad branch lines and short lines to get the train to Rock Island while avoiding most mainlines.
Sure, it's the road less traveled, and track speeds would be slower, but it would be more interesting, give many more opportunities for stops and maintenance, and for the most part keep out of the way of mainline freight operations by staying most of the time on lightly trafficked secondary lines.
That might happen. The last I checked (on the website) Jason is still working on an alternative solution. Its his event and he is dealing with the railroads probably with kid gloves, political politeness and $$$. His crew's event in Owosso in 2009 was very successful so I suppose that if there is any way shape or form (or just the locomotive) that the 3751 can show, Jason can pull it off.
En route maintenance and upkeep may well be a dealbreaker. There aren't too many groups around that have any real experience with such a long-distance movement.
BNSF has precedent for turning down moves that have the potential to tie the Transcon in knots. Some years ago, UPS made a proposal for a high-speed freight service for which they would pay a super-premium rate, the so-called Bullet train. BNSF ran a test train in line with the UPS proposal and found that such a service would be more bother than it was worth. BNSF did not bid on the proposal.
We are forgetting one thing. The BNSF has trackage rights over the old Sp line that the UP does not like to use acroos colorado why not use the 3751 in a ferry move across that. The old DRGW and SP line since th UP does not want to use it.
edbenton We are forgetting one thing. The BNSF has trackage rights over the old Sp line that the UP does not like to use acroos colorado why not use the 3751 in a ferry move across that. The old DRGW and SP line since th UP does not want to use it.
Are you referring to the Moffat Route? UP uses that for some freights, but it's not their primary route like the Overland Route. The problem, however, is getting the train there from LA. The only tracks would be UP's line through Las Vegas which is very busy as a large portion of traffic going from LA to Chicago resides on that line.
Really, the only way I can think of to move 3751 while completely avoiding all main lines is for it to have it work it's way north to Washington on lightly used lines, and then from there go through Idaho, Montana, and the Dakotas en route to Rock Island. There are many more branch lines available using that routing. But that's very circuitous...
The fact is that going direct (or anywhere close to direct) from LA would require good portions of the train to be on busy mainline trackage.
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