In the Extreme Trains episode with the big steam engine they charged the boiler with a steam generator. Was this a common practice? Was it required for freight or just for passenger or commuter rail?
In steam days steam pressure was needed to run the draft blower called for steam in the loco.
A cold loco could get steam from the stationary shop boiler or another steam loco through the Passenger steam supply line on almost every steam loco and maybe in later years from a diesel steam generator.( not all diesel steam generators the same). This immediate pressure allowed the cold engine to get its fire going much faster. Don't know the consequences of heating the loco up fast. Anyone know?
I don't know what exactly you meant by a "steam generator". As already mentioned, during the steam era a major roundhouse would have shop steam available to help bring a cold locomotive back into service faster. Steam generator cars were used by a number of railroads, or a steam generator would be included on certain diesels, but this occurred as the steam locomotives were retired,. Their use for charging steam locomotive boilers belongs primarily to the preservation era.
John
There were several threads in the past dealing with the proper way (and speed) to heat up a cold boiler. The general concensus was that rapid or uneven changes in boiler temperature were to be avoided, with as much as a full day being required to go from dead cold to full pressure.
If a locomotive was hooked up to 'shop steam' before it cooled down after dropping the fire at the end of a run, it could be re-fired and brought up to operating pressure much more quickly. There was also some discussion about the proper way to 'bank' a fire to keep the coal burning (and the boiler hot) in a parked locomotive.
An interesting historical note. The fixed plant boilers at Roanoke were the boilers from a couple of the N&W's earliest Mallets.
Chuck
blue streak 1 Don't know the consequences of heating the loco up fast. Anyone know?
Steam locomotive boilers want to be warmed up as slowly as possible to avoid stress and strain. What you didn't see in the "Extreme Trains" is they probably warmed up the boiler a day or two ahead of time.
Here is one example of firing up a loco from cold. I would suspect it is a little hard on the loco even if not fast. I would wonder how other railroads that still run steam excursions keep their steamers?
Any thoughts I would have would only be speculation.
Any thoughts, site links, valid data?
http://www.southerncalifornialivesteamers.com/show_tip.asp?ID=14
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998 Here is one example of firing up a loco from cold. I would suspect it is a little hard on the loco even if not fast. I would wonder how other railroads that still run steam excursions keep their steamers? Any thoughts I would have would only be speculation. Any thoughts, site links, valid data? http://www.southerncalifornialivesteamers.com/show_tip.asp?ID=14Rich
Here is a link to a photo of the UP's Heritage Steam Generator Car " Howard Fogg" : from rrpicturesarchives.net website, photo (c) allen Love,jr. :
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1327377
And this , as well may be of interest.
http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/attachments/media_kit/loco_support.pdf
Hi everyone i am Rodney here is my take on what you are asking. No you can not use a steam generator for rapid bulid up of pressure after lighting a fire in the bolier the pressure must come upo slowly. The steam from the steam generator is used for a steam blanket layup to keep oxygen from entering the water sides of the boiler to prevent oxygen pitting. I used to work with steam I am a retired U.S. Navy MM1 and was a oil king that kept the propi\ulsion boilers at the proper chemical levels.
Rodney Beck
Thanks, Rodney, that's what I was looking for.
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Rodney BeckHi everyone i am Rodney here is my take on what you are asking. No you can not use a steam generator for rapid bulid up of pressure after lighting a fire in the bolier the pressure must come upo slowly. The steam from the steam generator is used for a steam blanket layup to keep oxygen from entering the water sides of the boiler to prevent oxygen pitting. I used to work with steam I am a retired U.S. Navy MM1 and was a oil king that kept the propi\ulsion boilers at the proper chemical levels. Rodney Beck
That makes a lot of sense now. You won't really pressurize it than to give it steam to force air out while you fire it up.
I don't think the steam alone could warm the boiler, water under pressure is actually hotter than our average 212 degree boiling point. This is how fireless cookers work, they run under high pressure steam but has water in the boiler, as steam is used the pressure goes down and boils more water for pressure, without a fire.
I have to be honest, I didn't know much about steam. The idea that the engines were kept hot 24 hours per day seems wasteful from today's idea of conservation but it's obvious it was required.
I was thinking how engineers keep diesel engines idle and wondered how much of that was from the old steam thinking and how it would be more efficient to shut down idle engines and restart them when required. I notice that VRE shuts down idle engines now during layover in DC waiting for the evening commute to save fuel. It makes sense and I wonder how much of the thinking of keeping a diesel idling came out of the old ways of steam and not the new ways of diesel operations. Surely in extremely cold climates it made sense to idle engines at 900 or 1800 rpms, but in DC?
aegrotatioIt makes sense and I wonder how much of the thinking of keeping a diesel idling came out of the old ways of steam and not the new ways of diesel operations. Surely in extremely cold climates it made sense to idle engines at 900 or 1800 rpms, but in DC?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Keeping Diesels running is/was also necessary in cold weather. Plain water is used as the coolant, and unless there is a means of keeping that water warm and circulating it will freeze, with predictable consequences.
Diesels which must be shut down in freezing weather (without alternate support) must have their coolant drained if there is the possibility the coolant will freeze.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
aegrotatio In the Extreme Trains episode with the big steam engine they charged the boiler with a steam generator. Was this a common practice? Was it required for freight or just for passenger or commuter rail?
IIRC the episode was set at a present-day operating railroad museum (Steamtown?). I think as some folks have noted, during steam days in a large working roundhouse you would have ways to connect an engine up to steam from the boilerhouse (which would be generating steam and electricity, and was often located next to the roundhouse). Because this was a tourist / museum line, they probably had to use a portable steam generator of some kind to "pre-heat" the engine while it was in the roundhouse before the fire really got going, saving some time.
The NYS&W wrecked at least one unit a few years ago by allowing it to shut down, outside, in the wintertime, without winterizing it.
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