The Mount Rainier Scenic Railroad has been very busy lately. Restoration of Rayonier #2 for a triple header photo excursion was the priority and they were very successful.
I like learning new things, history especially and I was surprised to find the subject of the project was not a Shay. Sure looked like one, but in fact it was a Willamette.
Not being quick enough to get the fare paid, I had to be satisfied with trying to chase the train. They had a good run by all accounts, but the Willamette was given light duty and sent home a little early over concerns of a hot bearing on the tender truck.
Here's a shot of it heading for the barn in Mineral WA. Follow the link in the remarks section of the photo and learn more about the engine. Don't forget to wander over to the reservations section and set your self up for a ride.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=293614
Very nice. I was going to ask, "What's a Willamette; how does it differ from a Shay?"--and I followed the links instead and learned what a Williamette is.
Johnny
Nope. It's not the builder that makes it a Shay, otherwise the others would be Limas, wouldn't they? It's the concept of vertical cylinders driving multiple trucks through universal joints and bevel gears. It's noted that they only built after the patents had expired so obviously they were using the ideas of Ephraim Shay, regardless of who built it.
tdmidget Nope. It's not the builder that makes it a Shay, otherwise the others would be Limas, wouldn't they? It's the concept of vertical cylinders driving multiple trucks through universal joints and bevel gears. It's noted that they only built after the patents had expired so obviously they were using the ideas of Ephraim Shay, regardless of who built it.
So more accurately, my subject line should have read, "It's Not a Lima, it's a Willamette, *&#@-it"?
While more accurate, I think "Shay" brings a little more recognition to the issue. Which at least for me was confusing this beauty as a Lima built Shay, as opposed to a Willamette built geared locomotive.
On a Willamette engine the steam chest and valve gear all faced the same direction. On a 3 truck shay two faced forward and one to the rear.
nedthomasOn a Willamette engine the steam chest and valve gear all faced the same direction. On a 3 truck shay two faced forward and one to the rear.
It's still a Shay though.
It is not a Shay, it is a Willamette.
Ephriam Shay patented his design and eventually assigned the patent to Lima. The Willamette Co of Portland OR maintained Shays used in the Pacific NW and saw areas where improvements could be made. When the basic Shay patent expired in the 1920's, Willamette began building their improved version, and a new patent. Lima responded with the Pacific Coast Shay, with variations on the same improvements, and their own new patent.
I believe the major changes were enclosed cabs and superheaters, with many other changes made on both sides to qualify for separate patents. The steam chest change was one of those. While they may look the same, they are as different as a Datsun and a Toyota.
Now -- Does any one have a photo of a Yahs? (The pistons are on the left.)
Phil
Timber Head Eastern Railroad "THE Railroad Through the Sierras"
Don't know about a Yahs, but the FORD MOTOR Co had a few shays used as shop switchers. Henry Ford did not like the offset boiler and returned them to LIMA to have the boiler centered on the frame. Extra weight was added to balance the loco.
Claiming this is not a Shay is like saying that an Alco engine is not a Diesel because Alco made it.
They turned one steam chest around, so what? Superheaters? Nothing new there and had nothing to do with being a Shay.
Rudolph Diesel's engine was one cylinder. Does making a V12 or in line 6 make it other than a Diesel? The principle of compression ignition is what makes it a Diesel. Rearrange cylinders, steamchests, whatever , does not change the original concept that gave it it's name.
You're trying to make the terms mean something they don't. Lima and Willamette were locomotive builders. A Shay is a locomotive type. Saying "it's not a Shay, it's a Willamette," is like saying, 'it's not a Mikado, it's a Baldwin.'
You don't have to agree with me, but Rayonier #2 is a Willamette built Shay (which makes it rare and unique, but still a Shay type locomotive).
cprted You're trying to make the terms mean something they don't. Lima and Willamette were locomotive builders. A Shay is a locomotive type. Saying "it's not a Shay, it's a Willamette," is like saying, 'it's not a Mikado, it's a Baldwin.' You don't have to agree with me, but Rayonier #2 is a Willamette built Shay (which makes it rare and unique, but still a Shay type locomotive).
Absolutley true, "Shay" is the type and name of the designer. Lima and Willamette are the builders. Like a "pick up truck", Ford, Dodge and Chevy.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
It's simply a matter of correct historical fact and patent-rights. Willamette Iron & Steel sidestepped Lima-owned Shay locomotive design patents to create their geared logging locomotive. It is no more a "Shay" than a Lima SP Daylight 4-8-4 an N&W J-class 4-8-4 is the same thing. They aren't and Willamettes ain't Shays.
Besides, I drive past the old Willamette factory in Northwest Portland every day...I never see any Shays hanging around there.
No...
Redwood Chopper It's simply a matter of correct historical fact and patent-rights. Willamette Iron & Steel sidestepped Lima-owned Shay locomotive design patents to create their geared logging locomotive. It is no more a "Shay" than a Lima SP Daylight 4-8-4 an N&W J-class 4-8-4 is the same thing. They aren't and Willamettes ain't Shays. Besides, I drive past the old Willamette factory in Northwest Portland every day...I never see any Shays hanging around there.
THE.RR It is not a Shay, it is a Willamette. Ephriam Shay patented his design and eventually assigned the patent to Lima. The Willamette Co of Portland OR maintained Shays used in the Pacific NW and saw areas where improvements could be made. When the basic Shay patent expired in the 1920's, Willamette began building their improved version, and a new patent. Lima responded with the Pacific Coast Shay, with variations on the same improvements, and their own new patent. I believe the major changes were enclosed cabs and superheaters, with many other changes made on both sides to qualify for separate patents. The steam chest change was one of those. While they may look the same, they are as different as a Datsun and a Toyota. Now -- Does any one have a photo of a Yahs? (The pistons are on the left.) Phil
There were four "Yahs" built..They were built for the Octavio B.Cabrera mining operation in San Luis Potosi,Mexico.This operation was financed by British capitalists,which may explain the left handed design. There is a picture of one of these engines on page 362 of "The Shay Locomotive Titan of the Timber" by Michael Koch. This book is long out of print and hard to find,but your library might have a copy.
This link shows a picture of the "Yahs" on gearedsteam.com:
http://www.gearedsteam.com/shay/images/octaviano_b_cabrera_co_4.jpg
BTW, geared steam is a great website, take a look around if you've never been there. It makes me want to visit Cass again...
- James
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