Best Railroad Museum In U.S?

[thewkndr]

 How cool is it that we have all these to choose from?

I live like 15 mins from IRM and we go at least seven or eight times during the season. I have two sons and they are still excited every time we go. All this has done is make me want to plan a longer trip for all of us. Enjoy them all!

[choochoobuff]

The Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania is quite nice, of course alot of PRR items, but other stuff also.  In addition you have the Strasburg RR right across the street, along with the Amish folks.

[challenger3980]

mudchicken

(1) Doug: now we know where at least 1 of the CKP SD-9's went after Trinidad.

(2) If the railroad museum is only into the mechanical department toys at the expense of paper records, etc. (no library or archival staff) , that outfit fails in my estimation.

(3) I put B&O, Sacramento, CRRM and North Freedom higher on the list for that reason.

Mudchicken,

  Please take a look at their website  www.nnry.com to get a Small glimpse of what they have, or better yet, take a trip to Ely, and check out their archives, you would be able to spend much more time than you care to reviewing their old records.

  When the NNRY closed down operations June 21st, 1983, it was not expected to be a long term shut down. They literally went home, and didn't come back, a true case of the foreman's coat still hanging on the hook where he left it, expecting to come back to work soon.

  The unexpected nature of the shut down IS the main reason why it remains so intact, there was no selling off of equipment, or furnishings and fittings, as is common in a business closure. All the old records and files, just sat there waiting for the employees that never returned. For the NNRY, time just STOPPED. It was about as close to the "Twilight Zone" as has ever happened in reality.

  B&O, Sacramento, CRRM and North Freedom, may have more records on a multitude of railroads, but, the NNRY has a nearly COMPLETE archive of everything that was recorded on the NNRY. The NNRY's records would only relate to the NNRY, and it's business, but I would imagine that you would be very hard pressed to find another example with as complete of an accounting as the NNRY, Likely second to none, or very few at best.

  The NNRY, is NOT only into the mechanical dept. toys at the expense of paper records, etc. etc. etc., but make no mistake about their mechanical dept, it still has all the original tools and equipment to repair and maintain the equipment, that it had as working railroad, It is all still there.

  The NNRY, may be out in the Desert, away from population centers, and not have the recognition that other more well known RR's  like the C&T or D&S have, but there are few others that can claim the historical Purity that the NNRY has.

Go VISIT the NNRY, before you list others higher, without being more knowledgable about the NNRY.

Now for my own lack of knowledge, what was the CKP?, I am not familiar with it.

Doug

[mudchicken]

(1) Doug: now we know where at least 1 of the CKP SD-9's went after Trinidad.

(2) If the railroad museum is only into the mechanical department toys at the expense of paper records, etc. (no library or archival staff) , that outfit fails in my estimation.

(3) I put B&O, Sacramento, CRRM and North Freedom higher on the list for that reason.

[gbrewer]

Doug,

Thanks for telling us about the EFD programs. I have considered both, but, so far, have done neither. Either one sounds like a great experience.

I did, however, ride in the cab of the SV 19. Here is my little story about it

Riding the Sumpter Valley

I still regard both the SV and the NN as "preserved railways", not museums. Same goes for Cass. Anybody care to agree or disagree?

Glen

 

 

[challenger3980]

Here are some pics of the Sumpter Valley Ry.

 

And some of the Nevada Northern Ry.

Doug

[challenger3980]

gbrewer

Challenger,

I think of railroads such as the three I named as, to use the British terminology, "preserved railways" as contrasted to museums. Whatever you call them, I certainly agree that the NN is at the top of the list.

I would love to do that engineer for a day opportunity. Tell us about your experience. 

Glen

 

 

 

  Hi Glen,

As I am sure You can imagine it was an experience, not soon to be forgotten. From Portland, OR where I live, to Ely, NV is a 1600 mile round trip, so to get the most Bang for the Fuel buck, I did the two-pack Steam + Diseasel. (July, 2007) I had originally Hoped to run the 2-8-0 #93 and one of the Alco RS's. But as Luck would have it, The 4-6-0 #40 (No Dissapointment there, She is a Beautiful Locomotive) and the SD-9 #204 were what was serviceable on my scheduled day.

  While in High School I had met an engineer, and got a little throttle time on a GP-38-2, but the SD-9 was even Better, there is no need denying I enjoyed the SD-9 A LOT, the trip was worthwhile at that point.

  But the second half of the day when I climbed into the cab of #40, it felt like one of those Dream Vacations from the old TV show "Fantasy Island" (how many of you even remember THAT show?)  I was Grinning EAR TO EAR the top of my head about fell off.  The #40 was my first throttle time on a Road Steam Locomotive, the month before I went to Ely, I got the oportunity to run a little H.K. Porter 0-4-0T. The little Porter belonged to the Father of a Close friend of my Mother, Unfortunately, the occasion was the Final Steam Up, in Clyde's Honor, as He had passed on, so that was a Once in a Lifetime chance to run the Porter.

  While running the #40, there was another Truck Driver ( I am a Truck Driver ) who would stop his rig, get out and Video tape the 40 going by, then get back in his truck run ahead and video some more. He did that many times, so when he would be filming, I would blow a Grade Crossing signal on the Steam Whistle each time I saw him, Hey ANY excuse to blow that whistle was a GOOD excuse in my book. Greg the Fireman, threatened to start charging me by the whistle toot. I quickly informed him that I would get my $5.00 worth, by holding down on that whistle and see if He could shovel fast enough to keep the pressure up. In a truck, yopu CAN run yourself out of air with the horn, Greg didn't know if the whistle could drop the boiler pressure that much or not, but he DIDN'T want to find out, but everyone was still smiling, myself especially.

  In July of 2008, I did an EFD, with the Sumpter Valley, on their 2-8-2  #19, I had wanted to run their Heisler but being a woodburner, it was too late into the fire season for that. I had planned on going back to the SVRY this May to run the Heisler, but with the economy the way it is, hours are WAY down at work, it might not happen this year, but I do hope in the not to distant future to be scheduling an EFD each year.

  As much as I Enjoyed the Nevada Northern, of the two, I would reccomend the Sumpter Valley. The SVRY has the EFD do more, and you actually take out a complete, even if short train, where on the NNRY, it is just a light engine move, both were GREAT, but it was like Top Sirloin Dinner, or Steak & Lobster?

  Another Nice thing about pulling a complete train, was the day that I was able to get my EFD, happened to be my Nephews 4th Birthday. My Parents, my Sister, B-I-L and my 2 Nephews all got to ride in the Caboose, so the whole Family got to enjoy the day. They just about had to pry open my Nephews fingers to get Him out of the cupola in the caboose.

I would Recommend either to anyone interested in an EFD program,

Doug

[loadmaster747]

I have to respectfully disagree that IRM has no historic context. The IRM mainline is laid on roughly 5 miles of the former right-of-way of the Elgin & Belvedere electric interurban railroad, although when it ceased operations everything was removed... rails, ties, catenaries, bridges, signals, and I think they might have even removed the ballast.  Also, the IRM "East Union" station was built to serve nearby Marengo sometime in the 1850s, and moved to the IRM property to preserve it.

[cbq9911a]

There is no "best" railroad museum in the US.  But there are many "top" railroad museums in the US.  This may not make sense, but it does.  The top museums have strengths and weaknesses, and the strengths and weaknesses average out. That said, I think there are 5 "top" museums in the US

California State Railway Museum

Illinois Railway Museum (IRM)

National Museum of Transport

Strassburg

Steamtown

One of the problems with choosing a "best" museum is deciding what your norm is.  Whatever norm you choose, major museums are going to be lacking in one or more factors.  To give an example, IRM doesn't have great scenery (it's flat and straight) or historic context (it was built on a greenfield site).  But everyone agrees that IRM is one of the "best" museums.

[doneldon]

This is a very difficult question.  Let's face it: one person's "best" is someone else's "it's okay" collection.  So I suggest we think about those museums/collections which are can't miss.  And I suggest the following as candidates:

• Illinois Railroad Museum - large collection, credible rehabbing, some operations (Union)Minnesota Transportation Museum - currently rebuilding two BIG NP Pacifics in their roundhouse, operating trolley, former steamer on Lake Minnetonka (St Paul, Minneapolis, Excelsior) 
• National Transportation Museum - huge collection (Green Bay WI) 
• National Transportation Museum - huge collection in outstanding condition (St Louis)
• Traveltown in Pasadena
• California Railway Museum in Sacramento
• Duluth (MN) Transportation Museum - where else can you see an iconic DM&IR Yellowstone up on blocks and running?  Plus the NRHS is meeting there this August
• Strassburg PA is always fabulous
• D&S and C&T because they are so close you can enjoy both the same day!

 

Just my thoughts.

[ToOld]

The Cass Operation in West Virginia

[gbrewer]

Challenger,

I think of railroads such as the three I named as, to use the British terminology, "preserved railways" as contrasted to museums. Whatever you call them, I certainly agree that the NN is at the top of the list.

I would love to do that engineer for a day opportunity. Tell us about your experience. 

Glen

 

 

 

[challenger3980]

gbrewer

 1. Diversity of Collection by type

 I'm not sure what this means. Most museums are far too diverse; they have no focus.

2. Capability to restore equipment

 Strassburg in the US.

3. Presenting collection in historical context.

Nevada Northern, Durango & Silverton, Cumbres & Toltec. 

But none of the above is really a museum. So, ignoring your criteria, I would suggest that the best railway museums in the US are the Colorado Railroad Museum, the Nevada State Railroad Museum and the California State Railroad Museum.

Glen Brewer

Is this any way to run a railroad museum?

http://www.railroadphotoessays.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1197

 

 

  Glen,

  Having spent a day in their EFD (Engineer For a Day) Program, I can tell You that the Nevada Northern Most Definitely DOES consider themselves a MUSEUM, even if You don't.  I am curious as to why you don't consider the NNRY to be a Museum?

Doug

[loadmaster747]

For best museum in the classic 'artifacts in a big impressive building' sense of the word, my vote for best would have to be the California State RR Museum... how many other buildings have a narrow gauge 4-4-0 in the rafters?  For both diversity of collection (trolleys, streetcars, interurbans, freight and passenger rolling stock from the 1890s to recently retired, trolley buses, and railroad signal equipment) and restoration of equipment for either operation or static display, my personal favorite is the Illinois Railway Museum.  Check out the department blogs on their website www.irm.org; even in a Midwestern winter, there are volunteers out there working on restoration projects in the various shops.

[JimValle]

Why worry about which one is "best"?  They all make a sincere effort to work with what's available and regionally appropriate.  I wouldn't wish any of them to go out of existance.  Some have the resources of a large state at their disposal and do meticulous restorations.  Others run their stuff and deal with the soot and grime and wear and tear with volunteers and local support.  Which is more meritorious?  I wouldn't presume to choose but I wish them all well and visit when I can.  From the switchbacks on the Cass Scenic to the shores of the Essex River to the rim of the Animas Canyon, who would want to give up any of them.

[464484]

My vote for best museum is the East Broad Top. Virtually intact since operations ceased in April 1956, you can tour (by car) the entire main line, visit extant facilities, ride on a portion, with virtually all original equipment and structures in place. Only on the NN, D&S, C&T can you do this anything like this. These are the best museums since you come away with the greatest experience possible.

[trackjack]

In the context expressed by CG9602, I would nominate the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona, PA.  Not only does it grandly meet the criterion of showing how folks in the local area worked on the railroad (operations, shops, M of W) in a graphic and entertaining way, but also has a collection of equipment, and operates the park at Horseshoe Curve.

[penncentral2002]

Is it actually possible to rate the best railroad museum in the US unless you have actually seen every one?

 Mention should be given to the North Carolina Transportation Museum - they have a pretty good collection based on North Carolina history.  Many of their locomotives are operational as well.  And the price is right - no admission charge - but last time I was there, we wound up spending $70 in the gift shop.

The B&O Museum is great, but it is very pricey at $14 a person in 2006.

Those two are probably the my two favorites

 

[ACF1001]

How about the Cass Railroad in West Virginia? I'm sure there are stories to be told in regard to logging operations in the area.

[CG9602]

I think another criterion to add is that of telling the story of those employees who worked on the railroad in the local area. Telling what sort of conditions under which the employees labored, and what it was like when they had to go and work in all sorts of weather, at all hours of the day or night, or before there were any sort of safety regulations or hours of service regulations. Then use the equipment to give examples of those things. For example, going to work along the docks at Duluth, Minnesota was going to be different than working in the coal fields of Virginia and West Virginia, or in the humidity and neat of east Texas, for obvious reasons. Tell a story about the employees, and not just have a collection of equipment.

For museums, one can't go wrong with the Lake Superior Museum of Transport, in Duluth, or the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, WI.

[passengerfan]

No one has mentioned the California State Railroad Museum located at Jamestown. This has to be one of the finest in the land. A real gem that seems to be ignored.

Al - in - Stockton

[gbrewer]

 1. Diversity of Collection by type

 I'm not sure what this means. Most museums are far too diverse; they have no focus.

2. Capability to restore equipment

 Strassburg in the US.

3. Presenting collection in historical context.

Nevada Northern, Durango & Silverton, Cumbres & Toltec. 

But none of the above is really a museum. So, ignoring your criteria, I would suggest that the best railway museums in the US are the Colorado Railroad Museum, the Nevada State Railroad Museum and the California State Railroad Museum.

Glen Brewer

Is this any way to run a railroad museum?

 

 

[wallyworld]

 Feel free to add them. My only hesitance to do so was a question I asked myself; Is accessibility the same thing as quality? Same for attendance. I think there are so many ways to measure this, I simply wanted to narrow the focus which may have been too narrow. Even so  theres always a certain amount of subjectivity and its far from being scientific.  Any thoughts?

I was surprised to see that lines preserved intact as a "system" were consistant winners. In retrospect, it seems obvious...they are complete in terms of context, history etc.  Duh....

[atsfm177]

 Can I suggest two more criteria for you consideration?  Location and attendance

The museum with the best collection or best preservation isn't doing much of a job if it is so far from it's visitors that they can't get there.  As visitors we may not know the numbers, but the annual attendance figures would go a long way towards telling us how well they are serving their visitors.

 

[ONEHAGGIS]

While they may not be the biggest, best or well known,  I think the museums in Crewe, Va. & Roanoke, Va. are really good to be at least nominated. Both have historic steam engines on display, along with some rolling stock, an indoor model railroad layout of good size, historical groups / "friends of", and both are located in the original historical railroad buildings sitting next to the original N&W mainlines still used by NS.

And don't forget about the museum in South Hill, Va. Located in the historical railroad passenger station which is on the original mainline of the A&D. While they may not have any locomotives or rolling stock on display, they do have a very good size HO layout showing in great detail how the railroad and town along with the local area looked almost 100 years ago.

I think that all three are worth seeing.

Just my three cents worth.

Mark.

[daveklepper]

I won't vote for which is best, noting that both the Cumbres and Toltec and Durango and Silverton did haul people and still can be used for simple travel as well as just train riding and photos.  Note that Steamtown has a neighbor which can be considered as part of its museum, and that is the Electric City trolley line, which at present has a very limited collection (just one Red Arrow center entrance car regauged to standard in operaton at the present time), but has great potential, runs on an true ex-interurban roadbed (Scranton-Wilksbarre Laural Line, Lackawanna and Wyomng Valley, which I rode in 1952), including a tunel, and is used for transportation to and from a fairground.  And Steamtown does run passenger excursions on real railroad lines that at one time had regular passenger service and are used for frieght today.   Also, it really has studied how to educate non-railfan visitors on railroad history.

 

I hope someday the Durango - Chama line will be restored.

[New Haven I-5]

Answer for:

1. Sacramento RR Museum

2. Strasburg RR

3. Cass Scenic or East Broad Top.

[espeefoamer]

For variety of equipment,California Railroad Museum and Ilinois Railway Museum.The B&O museum has an excellent collection of their own equipment,and that of subsisiary roads.They even have CNJ 1000,the first commercially successful diesel locomotive.

[wallyworld]

Railway Man

wallyworld

After reading "best" 4-84 etc..l.I would be curious as to how my fellow rail fans would vote:

If the criteria for the best railroad museum in the U.S is:

1. Diversity of Collection by type

2. Capability to restore equipment

3. Presenting collection in historical context.

 What museum would you nominate? I cant make up my own mind, I am stuck between IRM, RR Museum of Pennsylvania and California State RR Museum. I purposefully left out accessibility to transit, the inclusion of demonstration trackage,  and museums limited to a specific type ( narrow gauge, trolley, interurban etc) in order to narrow the focus.

 

Thanks for specifying objective metrics.

1. Diversity of collection is hard to quantify, however.  If one discounts the museums that consist mostly of a vast collection of mouldering scrapyard refugees, perhaps the B&O Museum has made the best effort at being nationally representative.
2. Capability to restore equipment = money.  If you have money you can buy all the talent necessary, and do anything you want.  Debates on historical scruples are usually angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin exercises.  In that regard, the California State Railroad Museum is I think the clear winner.
3. Presentation in historical context?  Does that mean interpretation?  If so, for an indoor, static display, California has done extremely well.  But in my world, railroading is an outdoor game, and for that I think it's difficult to find anything more like a time machine than the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic, where even the employees are the sons and grandsons of railroaders, and they are running a railroad that happens to haul people, not a museum that happens to run trains.  Nevada Northern at Ely is one of the coolest rail shops on earth, but the NNRY and Kennecott Copper were never passenger-carriers of note, whereas the D&RGW did a land-office tourism business, and the C&TS has a main line through mountain and plateau whereas the NNRY museum doesn't have that kind of scope.

Probably I am not annointing the favorites of the people in the bleachers.

RWM

 

 You brought up some valid weaknesses in my criteria. I also thought of a proverbial scrap line qualifying as a diverse collection but then I have been on excursions with some fellow fans who thought a certain museum was pathetic, although the equipment was well maintained, the condition of the track was awful. I suppose beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder. Just from the first responses, there seems to be a preference for  preserved railroads versus a collection from various roads. I hadnt thought of that. It will be interesting what else is nominated as well as the reasons.