Here's a good one. An "Historic" hybrid with no history...a new innovation placed in a shell. Is this a new faux subcategory of preservation? Diesel powered steam? The cost is also an eye opener. One million for "historic" car and a mile of track. Seems like a square peg in a round hole. Tires anyone?
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/251/story/606776.html
The real deal, ( nearly complete) :
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
The term "biodiesel fuel" is funny in the fact that it's historically accurate. The first engine successfully operated by Rudolf Diesel ran on peanut oil.
If you want to recreate the original "bio" fueled streetcar, you hitch a horse to it!
Now back to the questoin asked, I would say yes because it's still the same street car. You havent changed it's structer you are just powering it by a diffrent source of fuel. Unless they broadcast it no one will know that anything is diffrent from the orignal thing. If they do you might see more customers comming becaus it is quote "green".
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
It isnt the same street car. Another way to look at this is as a compromise or a compromised restoration as well as history being revised by example.In the future will gas powered automobiles be represented by historic examples powered by cold fusion? Horse wagons powered by golf carts? Street cars run either on from overhead wire or underground conduits.Another way to look at this from a monetary point of view is to ask that if the public cannot tell the difference, why not simply build a replica sans tracks?
On one hand, this is a didactic issue, it is either a example of a historic form of transport or it's not, on the other, one million dollars for a one mile "ride" is no bargain either. I can think of alot of preservation projects where one million dollars would be a godsend and the end result would actually be a restoration versus a Disney type innovation. I recognise this is a case of is the glass half empty ot half full? My own personal view is that it isnt a glass.In the case of the public where ignorance is bliss, the inference is that this is a example of history whereas it is not.
"Savannah is unveiling North America’s first hybrid streetcar in celebration of Local Climate Action Week, which begins on December 8th and runs through the 12th. Climate Action Week is sponsored nationwide by ICLEI (International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives) and Climate Communities, a national coalition of cities and counties that is educating federal policymakers about the essential role of local governments in addressing climate change and promoting a strong local-federal partnership to reduce greenhouse gas emissions."
The City Department of Transportation refers to it as a historic streetcar. Even the City itself isnt sure what it is. My point is that railroading history is a unappreciated facet of this country and referring to this car as a historic item is misleading.
A video is worth a thousand words.
Your argument is based on reading something into the article that's not there. The only place the word "historic" is attached is to the waterfront. It's called a "1930's streetcar" and they refer to "restore its vintage look." There's no reference to a historically restored streetcar.
Welcome to the Dot, Savannah’s fare-free Downtown Transportation system.
The Dot gets you where you want to go, when you need to get there, in and around Savannah’s beautiful Historic District. Swing through downtown aboard the Express Shuttle.
This is the article you originally linked:
Tourists visiting Savannah's historic riverfront will soon be able to hitch a ride on a 1930s streetcar that's scheduled to return to service this month.
City officials plan to have the free shuttle running Feb. 11. The streetcar will cover 10 blocks along the cobblestone promenade of shops and restaurants facing the Savannah River.
The city spent about $1 million to buy the tracks used by the streetcar and to restore its vintage look.
Under the hood, it's a bit more modern. The streetcar has been upgraded with a hybrid engine that runs on electricity and biodiesel fuel.
" a ride on a 1930s streetcar" It isnt a 1930's streetcar.Yes, it is the shell of a 1930's streetcar but it is not a 1930's streetcar. Am I splitting hairs? Perhaps. I see a lack of critical thinking. My complaint is that history without context is counterintuitive. This goes into other issues...the sound bite culture. News without context and why history is so important. As railfans, most of us if not all of us know the background and the context, but if you asked the public they would not. Perhaps this is a moot point, as in "who cares?" Indeed. Look at the DOT website and it shows a PCC car under wire.It isnt even a GA car, it looks like and probably is...Kenosha Wisconsin street car that has absolutely nothing to do with this hybrid. It isnt their own car and it doesnt run on biodiesel. Incoherence? Tom, that is my larger issue and I could have done a better job being coherent myself.
On one hand you have a tourist attraction, that's why I mentioned a "Disney Innovation" On the other it is a demonstration project. For one million dollars, wouldnt it be cheaper to run a biodiesel bus? If this is selling green transport in a time of economic shortfalls, this doesnt seem very compelling.It goes beyond semantics.The incoherence of our choices is directly proportional to our ability to discern a context in "historic" artifacts rather than calling an innovative use of technology " a ride on a 1930's streetcar."
How was the "1930's streetcar" originally powered? This seems to be your entire "argument" althogh it isn't what was stated or linked in the oringinal post.
It was powered by coal, which historically, in the 1930's was not a issue of environmental concern. Today this is a major concern. As I said in the previous post, street cars were powered by electricity by either spanned wires strung over the tracks or in underground conduits which further, were all powered by the conversion of coal into electrical power.
My point as I said in the other post is the incoherency of not only the DOT referring to it as a historic streetcar, as well as the article stating it was a "1930's street car" when history can easily be unearthed to prove it is not. This case of mixed messages is reinforced by the DOT pictorially using a car that is not a hybrid, instead it is a Kenosha car run by overhead wires. The Georgia car is the shell of a historic artifact used to demonstrate green energy.Another comment pointed out "Unless they broadcast it no one will know that anything is different from the original thing." The car is from Australia, not Georgia.
This appears to be an incoherency and as a result, rather than educate, it seems to compare apples and oranges in the public mind. In the days of yore, coal powered streetcars.
It is a innovation guised as a historic streetcar unless streetcars in the 1930's used biofuel instead of coal.. In my way of thinking would be to create a demonstration car from the ground up rather than a mixed metaphor. Its no wonder the advance of public transport seems to go in circles. The public would better understand a new technology if it were not hidden in a proverbial covered wagon.This is despite the fact I like covered wagons.
As I said earlier, you're reading more into it than it says. And we all know where the word "assume" comes from.
I am not assuming anything beyond that which is apparent. As far as reading more than "what it says" I have to tell you perhaps that is the concept of making comments or commentary..otherwise we would be talking more about grammar than substance.
As far as what you are inferring, a certain saying,...I think thats rather subjective as far as any reader or writer is concerned.. Time to move on rather than nit pick further.in minute, trivial, unnecessary, and unjustified criticism or faultfinding.
A postscript:
Actually, there is a bit of a textbook answer to this. . .
If "streetcar" is another term for "trolley," then no, this is in no way a historic trolley.
This streetcar has no trolley on it.
The history and lexicon of "trolley" originates from the device that ran along the wire to collect the electric current. The device on the end of the pole on the car was the trolley. Using the term to refer to the entire vehicle came along later.
No overhead electric wire, no trolley.
Lexicon and textbook answer aside. . . .
I don't think this is a historic streetcar at all. It's not electrically powered, there are no overhead wires, and it doesn't sound like a historic electric streetcar would.
Just because its not historic doesn't mean that it's not a valuble application of a streetcar - you can't always have the exact original item, and companies have gotten quite good at building replicas, or modifying bodies to look like the originals, but have totally different guts and powertrains. The function might be the same as the historic trolleys, it might look the same, and it might even run just about the same. But its not historic. You can call it a streetcar; Just omit the word historic. Is it really that hard to eliminate one word from a description?
I rode the River Street "Street Car" this past Wednesday.The "driver" was very informative.He called it a street car,said it was from Australia and made no historical claims for the car.The car offers a way to travel River Street much easier than walking on cobblestones.
wallyworldOn one hand, this is a didactic issue, it is either a example of a historic form of transport or it's not, on the other, one million dollars for a one mile "ride" is no bargain either.
Um. Priced new streetcars lately? A "million dollar streetcar" might sound like a $500 toilet seat to you... but in the real world, a new streetcar tickets out at somewhere between 2.5 and 4 million dollars. $1M will buy you a "slightly used" PCC and a decent overhaul. This is because of a very broken government procurement process. Othewise a million dollar streetcar might be possible, maybe.
$1 million would either rehab or electrify 1 mile of track. It wouldn't even buy you a substation.
So... $1M for both a streetcar and 1 mile of track? All I can say is "Where can I get in line?"
I can think of alot of preservation projects where one million dollars would be a godsend and the end result would actually be a restoration versus a Disney type innovation.
Sure. In a volunteer driven project. But you'll never find a volunteer nonprofit able to maintain vehicles for daily service, not even in San Francisco where the facilities exist. Many nonprofits struggle to maintain their cars for weekend tourist service.
As for bioidiesel, yes - mere propoganda. Most of the time when you hear biodiesel, you're talking about 5-20% biodiesel. For instance I looked up the Cog's supplier, and their "biodiesel" was 2% (which means 98% dinosaur diesel.) Most "green" things, especially in railways, are greenwashing (claiming to be green when they are doing the same old thing with green paint.)
If you REALLY want green...
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