NOBODY KNOWS?
O.K. LET ME REPHRASE THE QUESTION,
I KNOW THAT IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED HERE BEFORE AND I'VE BACK SEARCHED, BUT I JUST CAN'T FIND IT.
WHERE ON THE WEB CAN I FIND INFORMATION THAT THE GOVERMENT PUTS OUT SO THAT A STEAM LOCOMOTIVE MEETS MINIMUM REQUIRMENTS?
MARK.
Well, the Federal Railroad Administration would be a good starting place, as well as your local boiler/pressure vessel codes and regulations, and state railroad regulations.
May I ask why you want this stuff?
All rules will be found in the Code of Federal Regulations. You can find it online here:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/index.html
The stuff about state railroad rules and boiler codes is mostly irrelevant as long as you are running on the general system of railroads, over which the Federal Railroad Administration (http://www.fra.dot.gov/) and the (federal) Surface Transportation Board (http://www.stb.dot.gov/) have nearly exclusive jurisdiction.
State stuff will only apply if you are basically operating the locomotive on private property as an amusement-park-type attraction. If you have grade crossings with public roads and/or interconnect with the general system of railroads, it's pretty much a federal government show.
dredmann wrote:State stuff will only apply if you are basically operating the locomotive on private property as an amusement-park-type attraction. If you have grade crossings with public roads and/or interconnect with the general system of railroads, it's pretty much a federal government show.
I'm a little late to this string, but I want to correct an important inaccuracy in one of the postings, which suggests that the FRA steam rule applies only to locomotives which operate on the general railroad system.
The FRA steam rule (49 CFR Part 230) is not limited to steam locomotives which operate on the general railraod system. The rule also applies to "non-insular" tourist / museum railroads which are NOT part of the general system, and preempts state laws or regulations that would otherwise apply to steam locomotives on these properties. This may not be readily evident from the text of the rule itself , since the "applicablility" section of the rule (section 230.2) uses terminology that isn't defined in the rule (the explanation of the terms is in the cross reference to "appendix A to part 209", a pre-existing policy statement discussing, among other things, applicablility of FRA rules to non-general system tourist roads). But the scope of the rule and its preemptive effect are clear from the FRA's "preamble" to the final rule published in the November 17, 1999 Federal Register, available on the web at the following address:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/fedreg/frcont99.html
Select the November 17 issue from the index, and then scroll down to the "Federal Railroad Administration" listings for that date, and you will find a link to the rule and its preamble. See p. 62835 of the preamble (discussing sec 230.5) for an explanation of how rule preempts state laws and regulations. See p. 62848 (discussing sec 230.2) for a discussion of the rule's applicability to non-general system railroads.
The distinction between "non-insular" and "insular" railroads may seem a little confusing, so let me try to simplify it. Most tourist /museum railroads will be considered "non-insular" (subject to the rule) because most operate over a public grade crossing. On the other hand, railroads inside amusement parks will be typically be considered "insular" (not subject to the rule) because they typically do not operate over a public grade crossing. There are other criteria as well, but the "public grade crossing" criteria is the one that will most often determine "insular" or "non-insular" status.
I strongly recommend that anyone interested in the nuts and bolts of the FRA steam rule read the FRA's preamble at the above address, since it explains the steam rule in considerable detail. Of course, if you're not that interested in this subject, but want something to help with you with insomnia, it will probably be useful as well.
Just wanted to let off a little steam.
cprted dredmann wrote:State stuff will only apply if you are basically operating the locomotive on private property as an amusement-park-type attraction. If you have grade crossings with public roads and/or interconnect with the general system of railroads, it's pretty much a federal government show.Interesting. Thats certainly not the case north of the 49th.
Interesting. Thats certainly not the case north of the 49th.
In Ontario, the TSSA (Technical Stds and Safety Assoc., a private agency) seems to be the authority on pressure vessels. When it comes to models powered by live steam, they seem to have taken the position of "we don't want to know what you are doing."
As to railroads, being federally regulated, I would guess that Transport Canada gets involved. As to small tourist operations, that probably falls under provincial regulations regarding pressure vessels. Or your insurance company depending on the regulations.
cprted dredmann wrote: State stuff will only apply if you are basically operating the locomotive on private property as an amusement-park-type attraction. If you have grade crossings with public roads and/or interconnect with the general system of railroads, it's pretty much a federal government show.
dredmann wrote: State stuff will only apply if you are basically operating the locomotive on private property as an amusement-park-type attraction. If you have grade crossings with public roads and/or interconnect with the general system of railroads, it's pretty much a federal government show.
The relevance of a "connection" is the use that's being made of it. If the tourist/museum road is only using it for movement of its own traffic, like a shipper with a private spur tack, it won't affect its regulatory status. On the other hand, if it is using the connection to handle freight for hire, the road will be considered a part of the general system. The "insularity" criteria applies only to non-general system passenger railroads. If a railroad is part of the general system, it is subject to all FRA regulations, regardless of "insularity".
By the way, a "non-insular" tourist road, while subject to FRA jurisdiction, isn't subject to the entire body of FRA regulations. Rather, it is subject to the statutory requirements (ie., the requirements in the laws passed by Congress), and the FRA regulations which specifically apply to non-general system railraods (like the steam rules). A "general system" railroad, on the other hand, is subject to everything.
Falcon, my original post said "If you have grade crossings with public roads and/or interconnect with the general system of railroads, it's pretty much a federal government show." The grade crossings test is the same basic shorthand for "insular" you gave. Not sure what your point of disagreement is there. As to interconnect, I'll admit that that was perhaps unclear, a poor word choice, but I did not mean to suggest that mere contiguous rail between your loco and common carrier rails would get you covered by FRA regs. If you run your locomotive out onto common carrier rules, obviously, the FRA regs cover you. But I think that, say, even if you keep your loco on your own private rails, but exchange cars with a common carrier, you may well also be covered (I'll admit it's been a while since I read the regs).
dredmann Falcon, my original post said "If you have grade crossings with public roads and/or interconnect with the general system of railroads, it's pretty much a federal government show." The grade crossings test is the same basic shorthand for "insular" you gave. Not sure what your point of disagreement is there. As to interconnect, I'll admit that that was perhaps unclear, a poor word choice, but I did not mean to suggest that mere contiguous rail between your loco and common carrier rails would get you covered by FRA regs. If you run your locomotive out onto common carrier rules, obviously, the FRA regs cover you. But I think that, say, even if you keep your loco on your own private rails, but exchange cars with a common carrier, you may well also be covered (I'll admit it's been a while since I read the regs).
Briefly, the mere existence of a "connection" with a general system road isn't significant, whether you are a tourist road or an industry. Further, if you are using such a connection SOLELY to exchange your OWN traffic with a general system road (in other words, traffic you are originating or terminating as a shipper, similar to a private industry with a spur track), it won't affect your regulatory status. But, if you are using the connection to exchange someone else's traffic with a general system road, particularly if you are handling the traffic "for hire", FRA will consider you to be a general system road subject to the entire universe of FRA regulations (as I mentioned in my previous post, a "non-insular", non-general system tourist road may be subject to FRA jurisdiction, but it isn't subject to the entire universe of FRA rules). Any tourist road that is thinking of handling commercial freight needs to be very careful to take this into account.
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