interesting! I wish I had seen that article..
yes, the New York Central Niagaras were about as Super as they come!
The Niagaras along with the Norfolk & Western J-class and A-class are often considered the ultimate pinnacle of steam locomotive technology..they were as good as it ever got.
The 4-4-4-4's refered to in the article would have to be the PRR T1's then..
The NYC Niagaras were the height of NYC steam, and the T1's were the ultimate on the PRR.
PRR T1: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_prr5541.jpg
Sadly, there are no surviving New York Central Niagaras or PRR T1's.. :(
There is however one surviving N&W J, the famous 611, and one N&W A-class.
Scot
It is a 6 page article by Robert Le Massena comparing the 1119 4-8-4s and 53 4-4-4-4 locomotives, to see if there was a "super 4-8-4" that was better than the others. The criterion used included grate area, combustion chamber, boiler diameter, steam pressure, firebox type (radial, Belpaire, watertube), feedwater heater, poppet valves, booster and roller bearings.
The concluding two paragraphs-
One can only guess what No. 5500 might have done if it had been given the same qualities of fuel as had been burned in No. 6023's firebox. A 15 percent increase in maximum drawbar horsepower (to 5750) is perhaps optimistic, but 5500 DBHP - what the designers had intended - was within reason. There seems to be little room for doubt that the 5500 came closer to being a super 4-8-4 than any other steam locomotive of its wheel arrangement. What it could have done, had it been equiped with a Belpaire firebox and a double Kylala-Kylchap exhaust, is a matter for fascinating conjecture.
There is a rebuttal to the article, a letter from John Ingles (David's dad?), at the back of the June 1975 issue.
I would be interested in feltonhill's and Tim Z's thoughts on the article.
Scotty, do you know which railroad the 5500 and 6023 were on?
PHOTO
the beginning of "Super Power" is generally attributed to Lima and their Berkshires of the 1920's.
Although the first "super power" locos were Lima 2-8-2's..then Lima took the concept a step further with the larger firebox, requiring the 4-wheel trailing truck, and inventing the Super Power Berkshire.
but yeah, im confused by this Trains magazine story too..because it seems virtually all 4-8-4's would have fallen under the "super power" umbrella..and there certaintly cant be any question around "Was there ever a super 4-8-4?"..the answer is very obviously "yes"..
Generally "super power" referred to any engine that had a large firebox requiring a four-wheel trailing truck to haul it, usually along other modern things like roller bearings, larger drive wheels for higher speed service etc. So really it would be hard to come up with a 4-8-4, 2-8-4, 2-10-4 etc. that wouldn't be considered "super power".
So I wonder what the article is actually referring to by "super 4-8-4"??
ah! thanks Dale..thats different! :) there is a big difference between "Was there ever a super 4-8-4?" and "Was there ever a modern 4-8-4?".."modern" and "super" have very specific meanings when it comes to late steam..
I havent read the article, but werent quite a few 4-8-4's considered "Super Power"?
especially engines like the DL&W Poconos and the N&W J-class..and plenty more..
are you sure thats the right title? because it doesnt make any sense..
All 4-8-4's were modern..very modern...as modern as it gets..
I am looking for the article in Trains magazine by that name and need to know what issue it was in. If you can help me out, thanks.
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