...when the train starts moving? Anything?
I am translating a short story from Japanese to English. It's about the stationmaster in an old coal mining town on the northern island of Hokkaido. As Japan privatized its railways, many underused lines were shut down, and this story deals with that.
At any rate, there are lots of terms that come up that are absolutely familiar, everyday terms in Japanese, because the railway is still such an integral part of modern life. Everybody knows that when the train leaves the station, the engineer says, "Shuppatsu! Shinko!" which literally means: "Depart! Advance!"
This sounds weird in English, but I'm sure that back in the day, the engineers said something, which I think today we would say is related to "movement authority." I have been searching in vain for sources that would tell me what oral commands engineers might have used in the days of steam locomotives, or even on subways today.
Any guidance to Internet, paper or video resources would be appreciated.
Poppoya
He normally wouldn't say anything, except to maybe yell over to the fireman something like "here we go". Of course in America (unlike many other parts of the world) the engineer isn't in charge of the train, the conductor is.
On a passenger train, the conductor would yell "all aboard" a couple of times to indicate to everyone that the train was about to leave, and to get on board if you're coming with...kind of a railroad version of the nautical "all ashore that's going ashore". Then when it looked like everyone was on board, he would give a hand signal to the engineer to start the train forward and he'd climb on board. (In Britain he'd use a whistle, but we don't do that...and of course in the UK he'd be a guard not a conductor!)
On a freight train, he'd just give a hand signal, using a kerosene lantern or flashlight at night. If it was a long train, like a 150 car Missabe ore train, he might have to get up on the roof of the caboose to give the signal.
Of course in recent years the conductor would talk to the engineer via handheld radio.
See, now I always thought he said something like:
"I wonder what THIS lever does".
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Poppoya wrote:Thanks all for your input. This is going to help make my translation sound much more authentic. I understand now that such oral commands were the rule in the UK, and perhaps unknown in the US, that the conductor rather than the engineer is in command of the train, and that radio was an important influence. "OK ahead!" and "Clear ahead!" will fit in nicely. As my work progresses, I will check in again with more questions. Thanks again for all your help!
Depends on the time period, radios were not common on engines until after steam locomotives were retired. So the engineer in the cab of a diesel in the 1960's or later might give that response to a radio signal from the conductor, but wouldn't say anything before radio came along unless it was just a "head's up" to the fireman to let him know they're starting forward..."Here we go!" or "Let's roll!" etc.
FWIW one of the few times the engineer would say something is when approaching a signal, if it was clear (green) ahead he says "green board" or something similar (could vary a little from one RR to another) and the fireman would respond with "green board" back to him, to be sure both are seeing the same thing and the engineer isn't misinterpreting a signal. If a head brakeman were in the cab, he'd say it too. In the case of a signal on a curve where the fireman would see it first, he would say it first - "green board ahead!" and the engineer would respond.
The word, highball was used a lot by anyone in the cab to acknowledge a signal by the conductor when he was on the caboose on the hind end.
Bucyrus wrote: The word, highball was used a lot by anyone in the cab to acknowledge a signal by the conductor when he was on the caboose on the hind end.
True, the conductor's signal telling the engineer to proceed was often called a 'highball' signal. But I don't think the engineer would say "highball" when he got it, although if the train were on a curve so the engineer couldn't see the conductor, it's possible the fireman might say "highball!" to the engineer in relaying the signal to him. Otherwise highball mean a clear signal ahead, coming from pre-semaphore ball signals...the ball raised all the way up to the top of the mast meant the track was clear ahead..."high ball" was similar to the later "green board" I mentioned earlier.
Since there are almost always people on the ground near the tracks at Golden Spike, the fireman will say "clear, fireman's side," and the engineer will respond with "clear, engineer's side" before moving. If people are in the way, we don't move. (and we have a short discussion with the Park Rangers who are supposed to be providing ground control.)
dd
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
wjstix wrote:There probably isn't a direct translation or equivalent phrase. I suspect Japanese railroading is much more 'organized' with very specific rules on all aspects of what happens. Some European railroading was like that, more militaristic than US railroading which is more informal.
Japanese railroading is very much, "By the book." A motorman, alone in his cab, will point out the next signal and acknowledge it (couldn't hear him through the windowed bulkhead.) before knocking off the brakes and advancing the throttle. His schedule card is propped in a holder where he can refer to it at any time...
One result is that you can set your watch by almost any Japanese station stop.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
wjstix wrote: Bucyrus wrote: The word, highball was used a lot by anyone in the cab to acknowledge a signal by the conductor when he was on the caboose on the hind end.True, the conductor's signal telling the engineer to proceed was often called a 'highball' signal. But I don't think the engineer would say "highball" when he got it, although if the train were on a curve so the engineer couldn't see the conductor, it's possible the fireman might say "highball!" to the engineer in relaying the signal to him. Otherwise highball mean a clear signal ahead, coming from pre-semaphore ball signals...the ball raised all the way up to the top of the mast meant the track was clear ahead..."high ball" was similar to the later "green board" I mentioned earlier.
An engineer might get a highball from someone in the caboose (in the caboose era), from someone on the ground, or from someone else in the cab who is relaying it from the originator elsewhere. Assuming there was somebody else in the cab, the engineer would acknowledge the signal by repeating the word, highball, no matter from whom he received the signal. It was just a matter of calling signals where whomever gets a signal repeats it, and then everybody in the cab that hears it repeats it in acknowledgement.
For a brief time in the early 50's I was a fireman on the Illinois Div of the ICRR. I often fired for one old time hogger who never called me anything but "boy". At the start of a run he'd invariably say, "Gimme plenty of steam, boy". I'd reply, "Yes Sir", and work my butt off to keep him happy with a hot engine and the pop valve fluttering.
Mark
re: The engineer acknowledges with two short whistle blasts which means: "brakes released, proceeding ahead.
I thought two long whistle (or horn) blasts were the more traditional signal for starting a train. GCOR 5.8.2 provides two longs. NOARC 19 does not provide any signal for starting a freight train, but NORAC 21 does provide two shorts for starting a passenger train.
No?
I believe the Daylight excoursion crews will all call a signal, no matter who sees it first, to amek sure thsat neither the fireman, engineer, conductor, or pilot are dozing at the "wheel". Depending on the engine though, the engineer could say "fluebenstuffel" and the fireman couldn't hear him anyway.
-Morgan
If your "americanizing" Highball would be most suited.
But the engineer wouldnt have to say anything, he takes the commands to move. His voice is the whistle.
Thye may talk in the cab to the fireman if all clear, or if a signal can't be seen by the engineer on a curve the fireman will repeat the signal indication.
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