where is the 1800s steam??

[J. Edgar]

also...upto maybe the 1930's there was no real "preservation" movement so most 1800's steam was sold for scrap as bean-counters count beans not "the effects of steam preservation on the bottom line"

[Anonymous]

where is the 1800s steam is it not around anymore or is it just me not looking hard enough for it because i have not found any on any tourist lines why is that? is it that they are not reliable and fail easily or is it other things?

There are several reasons why there isn't much 19th century steam. 1: Their Age, because the older the locomotive, the more you have to care for it, which means the more you have to spend on it. 2. While they are attractive, most people prefer more modern steam 3. Railfans (most of them anyways, including me) despise "Wild West" railroad attractions, and prefer authentisism over tourist crap. 4. There are more modern steam locomotives than 19th century steam locomotives.

So there you have it. (DOWN WITH WILD WEST RAILROAD TOURIST ATTRACTIONS!!!!!)

Cheese

I agree your view of so-called wild west tourist attractions assuming that they are typically gaudy and inauthentic.  And I also agree that most railfans prefer the most modern steam because it represents the pinnacle of steam locomotive development, and it is also the largest, which seems to be a major criteria for many.  However, I think locomotives from circa 1900 were generally the handsomest of all.  And I like the earlier diamond stack power from the "wild west" era, but in its authentic historical context.  I would go back to 1885 any day.

[tomikawaTT]

Regrettably, there is quite a bit of the steel from 1800s steam in the structure of various WWII military artifacts.  More than a few old locomotives that had languished unloved and un-maintained in town parks and on college campuses were swept up in scrap drives.

That was the fate of the Mason bogie loco donated to an institution of higher learning by the C&S when it was withdrawn from service decades earlier.  The academics were more interested in showing support for the war effort than they were in preserving history...

Chuck

[Cheese]

where is the 1800s steam is it not around anymore or is it just me not looking hard enough for it because i have not found any on any tourist lines why is that? is it that they are not reliable and fail easily or is it other things?

There are several reasons why there isn't much 19th century steam. 1: Their Age, because the older the locomotive, the more you have to care for it, which means the more you have to spend on it. 2. While they are attractive, most people prefer more modern steam 3. Railfans (most of them anyways, including me) despise "Wild West" railroad attractions, and prefer authentisism over tourist crap. 4. There are more modern steam locomotives than 19th century steam locomotives.

So there you have it. (DOWN WITH WILD WEST RAILROAD TOURIST ATTRACTIONS!!!!!)

Cheese

[tomikawaTT]

There is one V&T locomotive, beautifully restored, stored under cover in Virginia City, Nevada.

The V&T's operating locomotive, #29, is a 20th century loco that was imported from, I think, Oregon.

Several times each summer, the Nevada Railroad Museum in Carson City steams up an old V&T loco and operates it on the circle of track that runs around the museum buildings.  There are a number of non-operating locos, as well as other historic rolling stock, that can be seen there.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with a couple of late 19th century Baldwin tank locos)

[awalker1829]

Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum has an 1891 vintage 4-4-0 (ex-Central of Georgia No. 349) on display which could be restored. I believe that restoration of the 349 is a long term project at the moment.

[tomikawaTT]

Sierra RR#3, Rogers 1891, is being restored at Jamestown, CA.  When I visited, the boiler had been shipped to Sacramento to be used as a template for a brand new boiler.  Hopefully it will be returned to operational status.

Chuck

[REI]

That's cool, quite a contrast from the usual, more powerful mikados that work the difficult track there. I wonder how often it visits D&S?

[Mr_Ash]

The Eureka is indeed a beautiful little engine.  One of my favorites  too.  It is privately owned and privately restored and is kept on its owner's property when not on tour. It burns wood and has operated on both the D&S and the C&TS.

Found a nice runby video on youtube :)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9d2WhZ7kHo

[kitbasher]

When you read a thread like this, you realize just how many there really are left- one must remember, like the several the CPR kept in steam into the late 50's, or the V&T to the end of the Virginia branch, curves, poor rail, light bridges- bridge weight mostly, kept these girls alive until they were noticed for preservation. The museum of transport in St.Louis has -3 or 4 woodburners, the Dan Nason is one of the oldest original 4-4-0's in the world, a Boston & Albany 'Eddy Clock', from the 1870's looking in sad shape, was preserved for engineering students to a use as a " now this is how it's done right" teaching aid. My question is about the V&T engines, Empire? and Genoa in Sacremento- niether were ever converted from wood? Or the 3 footer on display with them? OR the CP Huntington? And the Tahoe now in Penn? once burner oil didn't it? The Bowker? Where is it now? And the poor ol Reno? What is the news of out favorite movie star?    

[J. Edgar]

always always double check other sources before believing anything on wikipedia.....they dont do the research

[dldance]

The Eureka is indeed a beautiful little engine.  One of my favorites  too.  It is privately owned and privately restored and is kept on its owner's property when not on tour. It burns wood and has operated on both the D&S and the C&TS.

 Thanks, it says on Wikipedia that it's now stored away in Las Vegas. And it's interesting that it's known to be the only wood-burning 4-4-0 American engine left in the United States. It's indeed a perfect example of an American "Western" engine.

Funny, I guess that 90 ton pile of cedar that me and a dozen or so volunteers will split and feed into the firebox of the 4-4-0 Jupiter over the next 6 months must be coal.  The Nevada railroad museum also has the Dayton, a wood burning 4-4-0.  Now they only fire it up once a year because they are trying to preserve the "historical fabric" of the original boiler - but it is an operating wood-burning 4-4-0.

dd

[J. Edgar]

 for what its worth....if its not known out there here is the best site ive found for a list of links...

http://cwrr.com/nmra/

click on Tourist sites and browse away......and as you will see this site has links for all things RR'ing

[J. Edgar]

 The Henry Ford also has a 1890 replica of the DeWitt Clinton of the Mohawk & Hudson.....this locomotive was built by the New York Central in 1890 to celibrate 50 yrs of railroading in New York....it last operated at the Henry Ford around 1965

 

 Henry Ford had a repilca of the Rocket built in 1929 to celibrate 100 years of steam railroading

 here is a copy of the invitation sent from Robert Stephenson & Co. to see the repilca Rocket under steam in 1929

there are many museums that have vintage 1800's locomotives and rolling stock.....

i dont know what ever happened after the fire at the B&O museum in Baltimore a few years ago....they had an extensive collection of 1800's equipment

[Kurn]

B&O 25 (William Mason) is operable.Torch Lake #3,at Greenfield Village,operates every day.

[REI]

Disnyland Railroad #3,an ex plantation engine,was built in1894.

Oh yeah, that's right, I had totally forgotten. It's just that I'm into the WDWRR way more than the DRR.

[REI]

The Eureka is indeed a beautiful little engine.  One of my favorites  too.  It is privately owned and privately restored and is kept on its owner's property when not on tour. It burns wood and has operated on both the D&S and the C&TS.

 Thanks, it says on Wikipedia that it's now stored away in Las Vegas. And it's interesting that it's known to be the only wood-burning 4-4-0 American engine left in the United States. It's indeed a perfect example of an American "Western" engine.

[espeefoamer]

Disnyland Railroad #3,an ex plantation engine,was built in1894.

[dldance]

Unfortunately, locomotive built in the 1850's to 1880's had some flaws that limited their useful life.  They had lapped seam boilers instead of the butt-lapped seams on the circa 1910 locomotives that are more commonly seen.  Lapped seam boilers have unequal amounts of metal on each side of the joint and thus, flex more when heating up or cooling down.  That stresses the rivits and shortens boiler life.  They most commonly had D-type slide valves on the cylinders with lots of wearing surfaces and a tendancy to leak at higher pressures.  They still had to be hand fired, when stokers were gaining in popularity (especially with firemen.)  Many 1850-1860 locomotives did not have counterweights on the drivers -- talk about pounding iron.  Finally, engines of this era were small, 25 - 30 tons.  Thus, by about 1900 - 1910, when the railroads were offered $1000 each for these worn-out, underpowered, undersized locomotives as scrap, they were gone.  Including the original Golden Spike locomotives.  Also by then, the brass was mostly gone, the wood burners had been converted to coal or oil, and the distinctive smokestacks had been replaced by straight stacks.

Fortunately, many were saved including the ones mentioned in earlier posts.  We also have near exact replicas with the Jupiter and UP119 at Golden Spike.  I have just finished sanding the solid walnut window frames on UP119.  Yes they were built in 1978 but the carpenters were master craftsmen who knew how things used to be built - and built them that way.

Sorry we don't have more examples - but I'm glad that we have the ones we have.

dd

[gbrewer]

Quite right, vsmith. The Nevada State Railroad Museum is the place to go to see some beautiful examples of 19th century standard gauge steam. Some even operate on rare occassions. When I was there several years ago, I rode the cab of 1888, 4-4-0 Number 8. Number 8 not a V&T engine, but the V&T had some of the finest examples of locomotives of the era, and you will see several examples there. 

 

 

[vsmith]

(to the first replier) i had not said 1800 i had said 1800s (later in the century)

Same difference

Same answer..check out the V&T in Carson City Nev

[cprted]

see the reason that i ask this question is that i never hear of the 1850s or 60s or later 1800s steam and i was just wondering why you never hear about it. Because on all the tourist line s that i have ever heard or seen are 1900s or later like the 2-8-2 soo line 1003 that runs by my house every year around christmas time (santa train) is a 1913 ALCO steamer and i never see any really old ones

Well before the end of the steam era, railroads would have scrapped most of the motive power left over from the 1800s. Some of the 4-4-0s, and early 2-6-0s, and 2-8-0s were rebuilt and moved into yard service, but by 1930, a major RR would not have had a need for a large fleets of 4-4-0s.

The Prairie Dog Central Railway near Winnipeg, MB, Canada has an operating ex-CPR 4-4-0, built in 1882. The South Simcoe Railway near Toronto also has an 1883 4-4-0, I think I heard that it was down at the moment though.

[wisandsouthernkid]

(to the first replier) i had not said 1800 i had said 1800s (later in the century)

[wisandsouthernkid]

see the reason that i ask this question is that i never hear of the 1850s or 60s or later 1800s steam and i was just wondering why you never hear about it. Because on all the tourist line s that i have ever heard or seen are 1900s or later like the 2-8-2 soo line 1003 that runs by my house every year around christmas time (santa train) is a 1913 ALCO steamer and i never see any really old ones

[gbrewer]

The Eureka is indeed a beautiful little engine.  One of my favorites  too.  It is privately owned and privately restored and is kept on its owner's property when not on tour. It burns wood and has operated on both the D&S and the C&TS.

[REI]

You know, I've asked myself that, and now that I'm out of Florida. Those "Old Timers" from the Golden Age of Railroading with all their brass and Victorian splendor are my favorite types of steam engines and without a doubt, the most beautiful in all of railroad history. You might want to check out the Walt Disney World Railroad at Orlando, Fl. They weren't built in the 1800s, but they are four steam engines that were built by Baldwin and Disney rebuilt them completely in 1969 and gave them a really fancy and authentic 1800s look. Two of them were built in 1925, the youngest in 1928, and the oldest in 1916. It is the most beautiful Railroad in the world today, in my opinion. Other recomendations I can give you are the Disneyland Railroad, the Tweetsie Railroad, the Pacific Coast Railroad, and the California State Railroad museum, I believe they have some pretty neat 1800s equipment. Say, there's this 4-4-0 American engine I like that is called the Palisade & Eureka #4, and I believe it was built in the 1800s. Does anyone know where it currently is. I think I've seen it at Durango & Silverton.

[J. Edgar]

There were no railroads around in 1800

The first public carrier to be powered by a steam locomotive was the Camden and Amboy and was chartered in 1830

 

 on December 9th 1830 the first common carrier steam powered passenger train pulled by steam on rails in this country commenced on the Charleston & Hamburg line with the West Point Foundry built Best Friend of Charleston..... this engine also had the dubious honor of having the first boiler explosion in this country on June 17th 1831....the Camden & Amboy started in 1831 with the British built  John Bull No.1...not the John Bull of Baldwin fame a couple of years later....this info comes from the book The Story of American Railroads writen by John Holbrook published New York 1948....for what its worth the first "common carrier" was the B&O charted 1829 but used horses and even sail power until 1831...the Deleware & Hudson had charted in 1828 but was not a common carrier but an extension of the D&H canal and used for coal hauling...with horses until the Stourbrige Lion arrived from England in 1832

[Mr_Ash]

Come to Colorado where at the Colorado Railroad Museum, former D&RGW #346, built in 1881, has just been placed back in service after an extensive overhall. It will operated on several weekends this season -- check their website: crrm.org.

Former Rio Grande Southern Engine #20 is currently being rebuilt in Pennsylvania and will join the 346 at the museum in Golden. 

In Durango former D&RGW 315 has also been rebuilt by an all voluntier crew. It will operate several times this summer.

Sadily, C&S 2-6-0 Number 9 was back in service but only for one season and is now awaiting repair. See my story at http://www.railroadphotoessays.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791

Two more former D&RGW narrow gauge 2-8-0s operate regularly at Knotts Berry Farm in LA.

Glen 

#346 and 315 are the two C clas 2-8-0s I referred to, forgot about #9 and shame on me the two C-19s at Knutts Berry Farm

There are also several Shays Heilsers Climaxs and other such engines scattered across the Country, dont forget the K at the Huckleberry RR back east or the tiny two footers still running in Maine and at the Cripple Creek RR

The two 2-8-0's at Knotts Berry Farm are D&RGW #340 and RGS #41

Huckleberry RR in Flint Michigan has D&RGW K27 2-8-2 #464 and a Alaska RR 4-6-0 #2 (formally #152)

[paulsafety]

The John Bull is in the Smithsonian's collection, but in 1983, it's replica (made by the PRR) was steamed briefly on the Strasburg.....see link for details  http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/about/roster/johnbull.htm

The RR Museum of PA also has 1880's equipment -- a PRR H3 2-8-0, passenger cars, etc.

Paul F.