After several months of waiting, the in-cap experience with N&W 475 has arrived. I was lucky to secure two back to back runs with 475 for my daughter (she's 28) and I as a tag team. She will be the engineer and I'll fire, then the next trip will reverse roles. We know what time to show at Leaman Place Junction, what else can we expect from this one time experience? Will be marking up on Sunday for our runs.
Just to add, my daughter's first road trip after she was born, and could travel, was to the Strasburg rail museum. When she was one, there was a free portrait taking event at a local grocery store. So we showed up in her pink Oscash stripes overalls with matching engineer's cap, I in a pink stripe shirt (was in style back in the day) gray engineer's cap with her holding a long neck locomotive oiling can! It our favorit portrate of us together. This run on 475 is the perfect Daddy/Daughter event for us as we both grow a little older. And yes, we have matching gray striped coveralls, jean shirts and engineer caps this time around. Will have said oil can along for pictures.
Anything more we should expect or prepare for?
I appreciate any advice from the more season folks on this forum.
You are aware of how the throttle on 475 needs to be pulled when starting from rest, right? Hard until the valve opens enough to port to balance pressure for further 'widening', then less... see if they will let you practice this a few times, with advice, to get the 'hang' of it.
And how long to open the cylinder cocks when starting?
My recommendation is to run the engine on the throttle when starting, instead of cranking up the cutoff to 'running' shortness nearly immediately, if you find you can control its position relatively easily. Know the throw of the throttle, and the relative effect at different positions, by observation before you do it yourself. You may want to do the same thing for reverse position.
A good 'heel' before starting is always a wise precaution. As is fixing any perceived 'holes' (or clinker') forming in the fire as soon as you see them. I would highly advise having a couple of grades of 'smoked filters' for your goggles so you can see the state of the fire easily when you want; it'll get surprisingly white in there with the engine under even normal draft...
You lucky guy you! And your daughter as well!
I wouldn't worry too much about what to do in the cab, I'm sure there'll be Strasburg personnel looking over your shoulder making more than sure you don't get into any trouble.
The only thing I'd worry about is your daughter doing a better job of running 475 than you do! You'll never hear the end of it!
As with anything else like this, I think you should know as much as you can of the fine details of the art before you get in the cab. It will simplify any 'orientation' the Strasburg people give; it gets rid of time-wasting 'beginner advice' about what to do, and also eliminates a variety of rookie mistakes both with the throttle and scoop; and it quickly puts discussions on a more professional level about learning the fine 'local' knowledge about how to get the best out of 475 vs. other steam locomotives ... think what you can learn about 611 that you'd never learn any other way!
And of course his daughter should run and fire better than he does, and of course he should never hear the end of it ... think how her eyes will shine every time she brings it up!
OvermodIt will simplify any 'orientation' the Strasburg people give; it gets rid of time-wasting 'beginner advice' about what to do,
I dunno.... if you are going to run my engine (and never ran my type of engine), I'd rather you not be a youtube expert.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmannI dunno.... if you are going to run my engine (and never ran my type of engine), I'd rather you not be a youtube expert.
Please note I didn't say "advice", I said "beginner advice". And it looks as if you stopped reading there, and didn't see a couple of points I made afterward.
Of course they're going to learn carefully about the right things to do on 475. What they learn about firing won't have to start with the right way to hold and swing a shovel, or how to maintain balance doing so, or how much to take and where to place it as you fire. It won't have to start with fumbling about how a simple throttle acts when you start pulling it, or how to limit or eliminate any slipping during starts. It does NOT mean they have phony autodidact knowledge, or that they'll behave in a know-it-all fashion when they get up there, and it does not mean they won't be listening carefully before they start.
It means only that they won't be sheep having to learn the obvious, and therefore being able to learn and appreciate more of what takes years to learn properly in the short time they have. Which I, personally, think is a good idea. You're entitled to think otherwise if you like.
OvermodPlease note I didn't say "advice", I said "beginner advice". And it looks as if you stopped reading there, and didn't see a couple of points I made afterward.
When i was engine training, I had more than a few guys tell me to forget everything I learned at choo-choo U. I like to tell trainees that too (although it's rare I get them where I am). I also tell them I will teach them everything I know - but then I won't know what we'll do after those 30 seconds.
Thanks, everyone! Appreciate the input, lots to keep straight, but sure the professional crew will provide a guiding hands for the two of us. Thanks again!:>
zugmann Overmod It will simplify any 'orientation' the Strasburg people give; it gets rid of time-wasting 'beginner advice' about what to do, I dunno.... if you are going to run my engine (and never ran my type of engine), I'd rather you not be a youtube expert.
Overmod It will simplify any 'orientation' the Strasburg people give; it gets rid of time-wasting 'beginner advice' about what to do,
Hey! Is this thing the conductor's horn valve?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
OK, from an old book of railroading, who's the boss on the train, conductor or the engineer?
"Where's the auxiliary conductor's horn button, like I saw on YouTube?"
It could be worse: "Let me notch up on the throttle, then should I put the Johnson bar in dynamic?"
seppburgh... who's the boss on the train, conductor or the engineer?
Settled with a fistfight, in the 1840s on the Erie if I remember Freeload Cubbard's tale aright.
seppburgh2OK, from an old book of railroading, who's the boss on the train, conductor or the engineer?
"my engines - your train".
I was not aware of this thread until just now. See the General Discussion thread about PA railroad attractions to read about my own Strasburg engineer experience, which I did yesterday.
I did what the Road Foreman told me, but one thing confused me. We were using only the independent brake, not the train line. He told me when braking to work the lever back and forth several times between On and Release. And clearly, that worked well, and I could slow down or stop smoothly.
But train line brakes apply when air is released. Is the independent brake the opposite of that? When I released the independent brake, I would hear air escaping. That was counter-intuitive to what I was expecting. What's up with that? And why the rocking back and forth to apply? Is that to keep the brakes from "grabbing?"
I hope the OP and his daughter enjoyed their experience as much as I did mine! Great fun.
Lithonia OperatorBut train line brakes apply when air is released. Is the independent brake the opposite of that? When I released the independent brake, I would hear air escaping. That was counter-intuitive to what I was expecting. What's up with that?
Here is the thing as I understand it:
The independent on a steam locomotive is a 'straight' brake -- you apply proportional pressure, and the brakes apply proportionally; you reduce pressure and the brakes quickly reduce, again proportionally (this is different from a 'graduated release' on automatic brakes so equipped).
Where the fun comes in is when the independent is supposed to apply along with the automatic -- which, as you note, is activated by reducing trainline pressure which makes a complex valve apply the actual cylinder pressure. So there is a second valve somewhere in the independent line to which is connected a triple valve or equivalent, and this can apply pressure to the locomotive brake just as it would to ordinary brake cylinders.
Now, this is something you often DON'T want on steam locomotives (think flatted drivers, for one thing) so there's a feature to 'bail off' the automatic-brake application on the locomotive when undesired. (See the Amtrak P42 orientation video, 9:10 to 9:30 to see how this is done on more modern power).
What you were doing is like applying the brake on your car lightly in short pushes, letting it off to 'coast' (and the brakes to cool a bit) in between proportional applications that may not be too precise in their effect 'from control all the way to effected friction-imposed deceleration force'. I suspect you'd relatively quickly get the 'feel' of how 475 with trailing train responded to independent application ... but not, probably, in 20 minutes of practice.
It might also be related not to the brake valve but to characteristics of the brake rigging. When applied, there might be a tendency to stick or to remain applied in ways that heated or wore the drivers, or to drag: actually applying and releasing the brakes would allow each application to be 'clean'.
With the automatic brake, once it's "on", it's on to that degree; you can take more brake, but the only way to get 'less' is to release and recharge with the air brake completely unapplied (and basically, unapplicable!) during the time it takes for that to happen. That is one reason for the great importance of graduated release (as provided by ECP, for example) on passenger trains, and very probably a reason why you were driving 475 entirely on the independent.
Thanks, Overmod.
Lithonia OperatorBut train line brakes apply when air is released. Is the independent brake the opposite of that? When I released the independent brake, I would hear air escaping. That was counter-intuitive to what I was expecting. What's up with that? And why the rocking back and forth to apply? Is that to keep the brakes from "grabbing?"
Why you fan the brake like that is just to control your speed. You really don't need to do that if you can find the right amount of brake to keep you steady. It has nothing to do with "grabbing", unless you go applying too much. Don't want to slide the wheels!
The automatic brake valve that you operate has what is called an "Equalizing Reservoir". This is a small reservoir. This reservoir has a valve connected to a diaphram, which in turn is connected to the trainline brake pipe. When the "Automatic" or "Train" brakes are released, the pressure on both sides of this diaphram are "equal". When you apply the automatic brake, you are actually releasing an amount of air from the equalizing reservoir. This causes the diaphram to move toward this lesser pressure, opening the valve to the brake pipe and releasing air from the trainline to apply the brakes on the train. When both sides are equal again, the valve closes and prevents any more air from escaping the brake pipe, keeping more braking from being applied. It also sends a signal to the locomotive brake control valve. This signal goes to another side of the control valve, in turn telling it to apply so much air pressure to the locomotive brakes. This signal can be bled off, causing the loco brakes to release by pushing down on the independent brake lever.
Again, remember that these are two separate braking systems. What goes on with the independent HAS to come off by the independent. Releasing the automatic brake will not release an application put on by the independent brake. Releasing the automatic brake will release the pressure that only the automatic application put on.
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Thanks, Big Jim.
(Looks as if you've been moderated, though. That sucks.)
Thanks for the explanation, BigJim. Much obliged.
You are welcome. I hope that I made it understandable.
How'd it go, @seppburgh2?
My son and I went on the 611. Me as engineer, my son as fireman. We did what we were told to do, the engine ran fine, and we had a great time.
Same here. I was the engineer on the 19th and had a blast. The one thing that would have been nice (and they could have used as a money maker) would have been to have a professional photographer/videographer there to help capture the moment.
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