Skeeter is right. I asked about getting a ride and was told all I have to do is show up. I would have assumed there would be plenty of employees wanting to ride, but the interest doesn't seem to be there. The person I was talking to in the shop did seem to echo what Skeeter said.
I will say that the UP is a proud organization, and a lot of that is seen in the employees (at least most folks I come across). When the 844 or 3985 show up there are plenty of us that come out to see it, but only a small fraction of folks.
I don't think the Union pacific has a moral problem with its employees. When I was working there I never saw it. Although many jobs are based on seniority the railroad is pretty good at getting a job you like. I remember I was kicked off a yard job by a person with higher seniority and sent to work as a Holster. Nobody wanted to clean or fuel the locomotives. But for me it was a dream come true because I got to move them from the service area to the train which was sometimes a few miles away. I didn't even have a year with the railroad. II remember one day moving 13 locomotives all at once for about a half a mile. Believe me I was a happy person as I never thought I would drive locomotives, but as long as you have a qualified engineer with you it is considered training.
Many people believe that the majority of people who are Conductors and Engineers love trains and are rail fans. Nothing could be farther then the truth. It was actually a rarity to meet someone who knew what type of model a locomotive was or what the horsepower was. I remember talking to a engineer once and asked him if he liked the AC 6000 locomotives that we were riding in. He told me "all I know about locomotives is that they are big and they move trains".
Although I am a serious rail fan, I was riding on trains all day long when I was a Conductor. Sometimes it was from Seattle to Portland and sometimes it was just switching cars around the yard. But in either case you couldn't pay me to go ride a excursion train no matter what was pulling it. Riding trains in your off hours felt like more work. You start talking to secretaries, office workers, and others who are not near a rail yard and they can't tell you the first thing about trains. Many of them have never even been on a train before.
The only thing I saw that really improved company moral was giving them more money.
Well, I never said UP has a morale problem. Just that the Steam program does nothing for morale or the employees, it’s just a public relations tool. Sure, I took my kiddos down to see the steam engine when it came through my area but just because it holds a lot of historical importance for our country and it is pretty neat to see. I’m not a railfan myself, I got a subscription to Trains as a gift from a family member after I went to work for the railroad. And yes, the best thing for employee morale on the Union Pacific Railroad is a paycheck. That is pretty much what everyone thinks….
skeeterbump Well, I never said UP has a morale problem. Just that the Steam program does nothing for morale or the employees, it’s just a public relations tool. Sure, I took my kiddos down to see the steam engine when it came through my area but just because it holds a lot of historical importance for our country and it is pretty neat to see. I’m not a railfan myself, I got a subscription to Trains as a gift from a family member after I went to work for the railroad. And yes, the best thing for employee morale on the Union Pacific Railroad is a paycheck. That is pretty much what everyone thinks….
I have to disagree. Yes there are railfans that work on the railroad. I know who some of them are that work in my area. One of them is an avid modeler and I am told he has quite a model train setup in his house. I think that prob just about every person that works on the railroad cares about their jobs. Caring about their jobs does not make them railfans, they care about their jobs because they are good jobs with good pay and benefits and you get right down to it you really don't work all that hard on a day to day basis. Its not diggin ditches that's for sure. Also, in my observations, there are very few people who work on the railroad that find their jobs bad or to be a pain in the rear. Like I said before, seeing one of the companies steam engines was a neat experience. I mean think about how far railroads have come and to think that one of these locomotives that is somewhere near 100 years old is still out there rolling down the rails at track speed is pretty neat. However, just because people that work on the railroad come out to see something that's interesting and historical, have knowledge about their employer and its workings, or gets to be the pilot conductor for a special move and they think it is really awesome to do so doesn't make them railfans. How many people come out to see these special moves go by and what's the actual ratio of railbuffs to just interested normal everyday folks who come out to see a public event?? Heck, if I was given the chance to be the pilot conductor on one of those things I would do it. Its a once in a lifetime opportunity!! How many people are there left alive in the USA that can say there were part of the actual on duty train crew of a steam powered passenger train?? Prob not a lot and I am sure the numbers dwindle every day. Overall, there are very few "railfans" or "foamers" as most railroad employees call them, that work on the railroad. I think you are mistaking general human curiosity/interest with true railbuff interest.
"More money" has been brought up as a morale booster, and that's certainly true, we all want to make more money. But in my experience the real morale killer in any job is the "death from 1000 cuts" annoyances we have to put up with, some places more than others. Am I right?
Skeeeterbump:
I can find no reason to argue with what you have said. my only intention was to indicate that there are lots of people who work a daily grind in the railroad industry. My only intention was to point out there are any number of folks who would profess to be in the railroad business for as Firelock76 put it "More Money" that is probably as good a reason for hanging on to that railroad job, but it is an unhappy person who find no enthusiasm for their job. Money is good but a lack of interest in one's work leads to an attitude that creates an unsafe environment to work in and will lead to the potential for getting one hurt badly or even killed. Not a good outcome for anyone.
I certainly never meant to paint an individual who happens to work for the railroad as a (rabid 'foamer'). I simply meant to pint out some folks I have run across who got an opportunity to do their normal job and an opportunity to do something very much out of their ordinary routine that made a lot of the small stuff seem, maybe, more worth the hassle. I would tend to feel very badly for a person who wakes up and then has to force themselves to go to a job they hate and deal with others with the same feelings.
Firelock76At any rate, "if and when", I wouldn't expect a Big Boy to travel very far from its original stomping grounds. It MAY come east as far as Nebraska, it MIGHT go into Utah, but clearances everywhere else might be problematic, unless someone really does their homework.
All railcars conform to a particular AAR Clearance Plate diagram. I expect all Steam and Diesel locomotives do too. When the "Big Boy" was built, a big car conformed to "Plate C", such as the 80-85 foot long HW Passenger Cars on the CPR. Nowadays Class I RR's operate autoracks and double-stack cars. I would expect a Big Boy could run on a lot of 21st Century trackage, clearance wise. The weight issue is a whole other thing entirely, all of those axles notwithstanding.
What we need is for someone with access to blueprints to tell us what notation regarding "Plate ?" is there.
Happy New Year everyone.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
funny how far reaching this subject is ,i pulled up 3+ page disscusion about big boy resto on AR-15.COM lol but interms of weight it seems that its spread out over so many axles that its the avg weight of an
sd-40, which is what i have read. which if true is no issue & with double stack routes 7 89' auto cars most of the issues of yesteryear have disappeared
so anybody have an update ??? has there been any statments snice the inital trainwire article?? i know with the holidays i doubt we would have any movment on anything but after the new year i assume we
would hear something from the UNION Pacific or the 4014 owners , but of course the ambulance chasers have to write everything up before they can hint of a done deal
thomas81z so anybody have an update ??? has there been any statments snice the inital trainwire article?? i know with the holidays i doubt we would have any movment on anything but after the new year i assume we would hear something from the UNION Pacific or the 4014 owners , but of course the ambulance chasers have to write everything up before they can hint of a done deal
I would suspect that this whole affair was one of those deals were the info on the deal", was possibly floated as a 'trial balloon' by either, the folks in California, and/or the long shot in that situation, is the UPRR
It certainly created a stir in the railfan, and hobby communities. The "Big Boys'" hold an iconic status within those ranks. My guess is if there are serious negotiations taking place now, in the aftermath of the initial publicity, from now on, until a deal can be cut... and the theatrics of a major announcement made...IT will be Mums the word.
thomas81z funny how far reaching this subject is ,i pulled up 3+ page disscusion about big boy resto on AR-15.COM lol but interms of weight it seems that its spread out over so many axles that its the avg weight of an sd-40, which is what i have read. which if true is no issue & with double stack routes 7 89' auto cars most of the issues of yesteryear have disappeared
AR15.com has a railfan forum? HMMMMMM, some of our fellow Trains.com forum members who complain that the moderators here are anti-conservative might be interested (I don't use smilies, but If i did, I'd insert one here).....................................
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
samfp1943 thomas81z "...So anybody have an update ??? has there been any statments snice the inital trainwire article?? I know with the holidays i doubt we would have any movment on anything but after the new year i assume we would hear something from the UNION Pacific or the 4014 owners , but of course the ambulance chasers have to write everything up before they can hint of a done deal..." "... I would suspect that this whole affair was one of those deals were the info on the deal", was possibly floated as a 'trial balloon' by either, the folks in California, and/or the long shot in that situation, is the UPRR It certainly created a stir in the railfan, and hobby communities. The "Big Boys'" hold an iconic status within those ranks. My guess is if there are serious negotiations taking place now, in the aftermath of the initial publicity, from now on, until a deal can be cut... and the theatrics of a major announcement made...IT will be Mums the word..."
thomas81z "...So anybody have an update ??? has there been any statments snice the inital trainwire article?? I know with the holidays i doubt we would have any movment on anything but after the new year i assume we would hear something from the UNION Pacific or the 4014 owners , but of course the ambulance chasers have to write everything up before they can hint of a done deal..."
"...So anybody have an update ??? has there been any statments snice the inital trainwire article??
I know with the holidays i doubt we would have any movment on anything but after the new year i assume we would hear something from the UNION Pacific or the 4014 owners , but of course the ambulance chasers have to write everything up before they can hint of a done deal..."
"... I would suspect that this whole affair was one of those deals were the info on the deal", was possibly floated as a 'trial balloon' by either, the folks in California, and/or the long shot in that situation, is the UPRR
It certainly created a stir in the railfan, and hobby communities. The "Big Boys'" hold an iconic status within those ranks. My guess is if there are serious negotiations taking place now, in the aftermath of the initial publicity, from now on, until a deal can be cut... and the theatrics of a major announcement made...IT will be Mums the word..."
Well! The TrainsNewswire of this date: Jan.2,2013 has an update, referencing the negotiations concerning the status of UP 4014:
FTA:"...A Dec. 23 letter sent by the chapter's board of directors to its members, and obtained by Trains Magazine, indicates a substantial division, both in the board and the museum’s membership, as to the ultimate fate of the locomotive. The letter stressed that at this time there is no firm proposal from the railroad, and the two parties are only in the midst of exploratory discussions. The chapter's board has unilateral authority to make such a deal. However, the board decided the issue to be important enough to take a vote of the membership in the matter.Part of the proposed transaction would be for UP to provide alternate equipment for display, presumably a diesel locomotive or locomotives, to replace the Big Boy. Union Pacific has made it clear to the chapter that it would not consider a trade for another steam locomotive, as the railroad feels it is not in a position to thin its roster further.Ed Dickens, manager of Union Pacific’s steam program, visited the chapter's exhibit on the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds Nov. 30-Dec. 4. According to the board, at that time, Dickens expressed interest in the Big Boy project. If the 4-8-8-4 does return to the railroad, after restoration, the belief is that No. 4014 would eventually visit most of the 23-state railroad.
Some members are in favor of having the locomotive back under steam again, which also means returning it to Union Pacific. Chapter members in favor of a trade feel that the primary benefit, not only for the chapter, but also for the public in general, is that people will be able to see a Big Boy in action. Others are adamant that the removal of the Big Boy would weaken the position of the chapter as a viable museum. They believe that the absence of the No. 4014 will negatively impact visitor attendance to Pomona. In addition, there are concerns that if the Union Pacific operates the locomotive, the chapter would not receive appropriate recognition for its efforts.One unanimous area of agreement in the chapter: If the No. 4014 is transferred to the UP, and for some reason the restoration project fails, is for any reason canceled, or the railroad's steam program is canceled, contract must include a clause to return the locomotive to the chapter in a condition as good as, or better then when transferred.As a potential deal sweetener, the California museum has indicated that once the Big Boy is back in operation, the Union Pacific would consider operating a fan trip with the No. 4014 solely for the chapter's benefit. A counter argument has surfaced that if and when the locomotive begins system wide tours, it would rarely return to the Golden State.Union Pacific has apparently indicated that, in case a deal with the Pomona cannot be reached, the railroad has other options. That is widely regarded to mean that there are Big Boy's elsewhere in the country that are potential restoration candidates.Some members feel that loosing the Big Boy would put the chapter itself in jeopardy. Others point out that the group has other significant assets on display, including UP 4-12-2 No. 9000, SP 4-10-2 No. 5021, Santa Fe 4-6-4 No. 3450, and UP “Centennial” DD40AX No. 6915..."
So there you have it... The pot continues to boil, and Negotiations continue. Hopefully, to a satisfactory end for all parties
Well, at this point I'm putting any Big Boy restoration on the mental back burner. It'll happen when it happens as far as I'm concerned. I won't be losing any sleep worrying about it.
There's an AR-15.com site? Can't say I'll be going there. I never liked the M-16 to begin with, or any of it's clones. The M-14, now THAT'S another story!
Firelock76Well, at this point I'm putting any Big Boy restoration on the mental back burner. It'll happen when it happens as far as I'm concerned. I won't be losing any sleep worrying about it.
I'm in the same boat right now, though it would be really cool if they did start work on it.
And I feel that the museum has enough other unique locomotives that it can make up for the absence of the Big Boy. As mentioned before, they have 9000, 6915, and other unique locomotives.
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
AgentKid Firelock76At any rate, "if and when", I wouldn't expect a Big Boy to travel very far from its original stomping grounds. It MAY come east as far as Nebraska, it MIGHT go into Utah, but clearances everywhere else might be problematic, unless someone really does their homework. All railcars conform to a particular AAR Clearance Plate diagram. I expect all Steam and Diesel locomotives do too. When the "Big Boy" was built, a big car conformed to "Plate C", such as the 80-85 foot long HW Passenger Cars on the CPR. Nowadays Class I RR's operate autoracks and double-stack cars. I would expect a Big Boy could run on a lot of 21st Century trackage, clearance wise. The weight issue is a whole other thing entirely, all of those axles notwithstanding. What we need is for someone with access to blueprints to tell us what notation regarding "Plate ?" is there. Happy New Year everyone. Bruce
True, cars and engines are built to certain outline clearances ("Plate ?"), but remember that the Challenger, when on an excursion to the east just a few years ago, in the words of Steve Lee "remodeled a couple of coal cars" on an adjacent track in a curve. (And as I remember the photos later, the Challenger itself was "remodeled" more than just a wee scratch on the front left side, too.)
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
There is some news of some dissension within the California RR club on the loan or swap to the UP. MY thought is that the dissenters could be satisfied if the Up would agree to one California - based fan trip each year on the Club's behalf. The agreement should state that when the Big Boy is in the shop for a long time and not available for the usual date, the Challenger or the 844 should be substituted.
Semper Vaporo True, cars and engines are built to certain outline clearances ("Plate ?"), but remember that the Challenger, when on an excursion to the east just a few years ago, in the words of Steve Lee "remodeled a couple of coal cars" on an adjacent track in a curve. (And as I remember the photos later, the Challenger itself was "remodeled" more than just a wee scratch on the front left side, too.)
I understand UP told CRR "never again" after this incident.
ChuckAllen, TX
cefinkjr Semper Vaporo True, cars and engines are built to certain outline clearances ("Plate ?"), but remember that the Challenger, when on an excursion to the east just a few years ago, in the words of Steve Lee "remodeled a couple of coal cars" on an adjacent track in a curve. (And as I remember the photos later, the Challenger itself was "remodeled" more than just a wee scratch on the front left side, too.) I understand UP told CRR "never again" after this incident.
Besides that, I didn't think that a Big Boy has any reason to be heading to the east coast, other than to show it off, which I doubt the UP would do anyway since the only line that I know that the Big Boy could handle without much difficulty, as far as clearences, is Sherman Hill.
"The letter stressed that at this time there is no firm proposal from the railroad, and the two parties are only in the midst of exploratory discussions."
Well, we'll see. I work for our state government, and today is the first day of the new Legislative session. Inevitably we'll see similar things in the next months. A state rep. or senator proposes a bill - or talks about proposing one - and it will cause a big stir in the news, and then it goes nowhere - but people still get excited about it. I've seen it happen where someone talks about possibly proposing increasing say the Education Credit on the state tax return, and the day after it's mentioned on the news people start calling our office asking how they can get their share of the money that the state is giving out.
wjstix A state rep. or senator proposes a bill - or talks about proposing one - and it will cause a big stir in the news, and then it goes nowhere -
Lehigh Valley 2089 Firelock76Well, at this point I'm putting any Big Boy restoration on the mental back burner. It'll happen when it happens as far as I'm concerned. I won't be losing any sleep worrying about it. I'm in the same boat right now, though it would be really cool if they did start work on it. And I feel that the museum has enough other unique locomotives that it can make up for the absence of the Big Boy. As mentioned before, they have 9000, 6915, and other unique locomotives.
It is true the museum has some very unique and great locomotives with great past history, but the fairgrounds mentality thinking is all new and up to date latest show items. Those two three cylinder locomotives are just about the most unique locomotives in the USA. I believe the Franklin museum also has one of the special Baldwin three cylinder locomotives, but these were used for service for many years and are the remaining sole survivors’ of that type. We have been out there many times over the years to visit the great locomotives and it is a nice display. The O scale layout under the grand stands was a great show also, but it was removed. I can understand their concern about the 4014 being removed from their display. They also have the largest diesel in their display.
The good news is the 4018 in Dallas should be in decent shape for rebuilding if they really want a Big Boy back on the tracks. It was recently removed from the old location and moved to Frisco Texas for their new home. New pistons rods could be manufactured along with many other items needed to rebuild it or they could be removed from one of the others on display.
CZ
Has anyone heard any recent news?
its gonna be a while they have to do the behind scenes contracts with the lawyers & iron out alot of stuff , if & i say if the 4014 is the choice , they wanted to have it on its way to cheyenne sometime in feb
well i found pics of the 4023 steaming in cheyenne yard in 1976 but i cant figure out how to post a pic from my pc onto the thread
4023 steaming in 1976? Are you sure it was actually under steam and the steam n' smoke weren't just 'special effects" for photo purposes?
If you can't figure out how to post the picture (don't feel bad, I can't either) just tell us where to find it, we'll take care of ourselves.
no its under house steam i will link it :)
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/LocoPicture.aspx?id=37697
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1900044
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