2 BAD DERAILMENTS SO FAR, HOW MANY MORE?

[Anonymous]

There was a derailment here in NorCal Tuesday. The UP train derailed a few miles north of Roseville, CA. A lot cars were damaged, lumber and some chemicals. Funny, it derailed .25 miles from a Indian casino. The train originated in Portland.

Q in Sac

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

Speaking of Derailments, does anyone here know any additional information into signal "1061E" I.e The phantom signal, a famous Conrail derailment?

There was a 4-part (I think) series on TLC called "Why Trains Crash" and in one episode they talked about that derailment. They were quite interesting shows, actually.

Lol, I have that dopcumentry on tape, But i was wondering if anyoen knew ANY more detinls.. good series, very good.

[Anonymous]

In reply to mudchicken, we have sqwaked quite frequently to the trainmaster and the super. There answer was 8 ballast cars for 6 worst spots and 2 handmedown tampers probably left over from penn central. I know a lot of the track guys here from when i used to work for sperry. They havent hired any new guys in 5 years and there are 3 slots open. The latest attempt was that the union leaders( BLE, UTU, Trackworkers) have sent a letter to the transportation secretary of NEW York. We will see what happens. As for sperry being here thay are here 3 times a year. Thats a nightmare in itself.

[wabash1]

the history of csx and its track is not new. they do not maintain anything. it seems they wait til the track is gone before they do any work. I have first hand seen track and interlockings so bad that we would have a 10 mph slow on the interlocking and the csx would not put a slow order out on their trains . and the diomond would be broke in half. they jumper it for the signals to work. and the welder would show up 2 weeks later. scary thought when you are sitting there watching cars jump over the interlocking.

[mudchicken]

Jchoo:

(1) Haven't you folks at least started pestering the operating lizzards to quit being "YES-men" (GMs, TMs and Supt.s) and start asking why the suits aren't getting pressured to spend money on trackwork in your backyard? (ie..."the squeaky wheel gets the grease"). As bad as CSX has been clamping down on track renewal $$$$, the local track people most likely are doing the best they can with what budget they have. (How about laying off the front office people instead of the few trackmen left? Beancounters are clueless when it's time to get dirty and do the work) Ask the suits to explain to you what the 2004 Maintenance program is supposed to be where you are. Does it fix the problems where you feel them or where the wheels hit the dirt. If not, ask questions -NOW. (People that sweep stuff under the rug tend not to last very long these days)

(2) With FRA already breathing down CSX's neck, do not be surprised if a rash of slow orders is in the works and FRA guys are out looking by now. (and I bet the inspection paperwork related to the current derailment sites is getting a thorough review- if somebody on the lower rungs of the ladder is not doing his/her job, it's usually easy to see who is is in deep doo-doo.) FRA signed a pretty restrictive Memorandum of Understanding (MOA) following the circus in in Florida, Baltimore and North Carolina. The FRA will hold Snow & Company to that agreement......

(3) Ask the yes men, given the rash of troubles, why there aren't more frequent inspections and more trackwork repairs being done (let them lose sleep too)...

(4) If you hit a rough spot, REPORT IT. (what , where and when in detail!) Do not ignore it....Whens the last time you had a track supervisor/roadmaster or division engineer ride over the territory with you?....most RR's require the roadmaster to do a cab ride over the territory once a month just to feel the ride under load) If your roadmaster/ TS sees you are not out there crying "Wolf", they appreciate the reports.

(5) AntonioFP45: Rail Detectors are NOT the answer to everything (In reality they are just a small part of the inspection question, inspection cycles are based on tonnage after the initial annual inspection) It sounds like the only problem the rail has is that the wheels tend to leave the rail for some other reason than a rail defect)
They are visually inspecting the main track, sidings & switches (by foot or by hyrail) at least once a week (Yard and industry tracks once a month) and if the main track is class 3 (40 mph or more) the frequency gets ratcheted up. I bet they shoot for 2x a week and see what the dispatcher allows them to get....

Granted, most folks are interested in trains and not track. But if you don't have track, in good condition, so much for the trains (they're linked!) Maybe folks should try to understand what all those yellow machines and track people do. Most cannot tell the difference between a Jordan spreader, a TKO, a ballast regulator, a zapper , anchor squeezer and a tamper (K-Cubed, Bergie & CO - HINT-HINT! just the basics in one special issue, don't try to explain the different theories of how to do it)

Most railroad's maintenance & renewal budget is based on carloadings, tonnage, operating income and traffic cycles (linkage again!) If the income money isn't there, the track maintenance projects do not happen. Remember Penn Central anyone? Understand now why ConRail looked so much better?

I have no idea of the tonnage or train frequency is but I bet they run a geometry car at least twice a year looking for pattern defects. If the ties are bad, I'm willing to bet that the track people are arguing for a tie gang. If it's soft track, somebody's making noise about an undercutter or ditcher plus surfacing gangs and so on....

IF the operating people don't loosen the purse strings, the maintenance folks don't get the $$$ to fix anything (unless the FRA makes life miserable for the suits). IF you don't get the operating people's (your bosses - the suits, NOT the track guys)attention that something's wrong out out there, and you're concerned, nothing gets done. (sort of the Emporer's new clothes parable in a railroad setting)

Mudchicken

[AntonioFP45]

Trainheartedguy and other pros.

That's pretty scary. It's alarming that with all this 21st century technology that we don't see Sperrys more often. CSX supposedly has some type of rail detector vehicles in the fleet. I'm very sure that it's expensive, but derailments are far more expensive. Having performed welding jobs on buses when I worked in a transit company years ago, defects in metal are not often visible to a roving eye, especially transverse type fissures or heat buckling. I hope that CSX gets its act together in this area. The last thing they need is to lose customers now that the economy is picking up steam, or even worse having an "Amtraker" leave the rails.

BTW: I used to see the Sperry's quite a bit on the SCL in the early 80s in Florida.

[Anonymous]

Believe it or not AntonioFP45, the AMTRAK wreck i mentioned earlier happened a day after a VISUAL INSPECTION of the rails, just a pair of guys walking the tracks staring at them I guess. Sperry comes through here very rarely, Ive only seen two since I moved here 6 years ago (I got to talk to the most recent crew i saw, about 2 years ago)

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Railfans & Professional Railroaders

Forgive my ignorance. I've been a long time railfan and have always assumed that Class Ones like CSX utilized track inspectors frequently to inspect mainlines. I also thought that SPERRY RAIL DETECTION CARS or similar vehicles were also used to ensure safety. Gotta admit that I'm wondering about safety as me and my loved ones use Amtrak whenever we can. Has rail maintenance levels dropped in the last decade? How are mainlines inspected today? How often?

I'm beginning to wonder about the safety of CSX's "steel highways". It's ironic that 2 decades back I never worried about derailments while regularly riding Amtrak's Silver Meteor on Seaboard Coast Line tracks at speed. SCL seemed to have a good rep back then about safety.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

Speaking of Derailments, does anyone here know any additional information into signal "1061E" I.e The phantom signal, a famous Conrail derailment?

There was a 4-part (I think) series on TLC called "Why Trains Crash" and in one episode they talked about that derailment. They were quite interesting shows, actually.

[jchnhtfd]

Seems to me that that St. Lawrence - Montreal territory is kind of a forgotten orphan[B)] -- it's real easy to forget it even exists, unless you happen to live or travel up that way (why???[:D] - just kidding -- it's beautiful country!). Which doesn't excuse neglect...[xx(].
Maybe CSX is trying help out CP's old Delaware & Hudson's lines?[:D]

[JoeKoh]

A few weeks ago csx had derailments in Fostoria and in Nothern indiana the same weekend.ouch
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

CSX has had a few problems lately on the former B&O old main line (OML) & Metropolitan(now washington) sub division(MSD). A multiple car derailment in Sykesville MD (OML) made it to the Trains.com Newswire a few weeks ago, the Amtrak Capitol Limited (MSD) derailed (never heard a final report, but it was first believed that a "kink" in the rail developed after the last train because of the heat), and while i was on vacation, part of my hometown(OML & MSD) was evacuated, or at least almosed evacuated, because of a leaking chemical tanker under pressure.

[Anonymous]

Speaking of Derailments, does anyone here know any additional information into signal "1061E" I.e The phantom signal, a famous Conrail derailment?

[Anonymous]

So far this year on the CSX St. Lawrence and Montreal subdivisions, we have had 3 major derailments and 5 smaller ones. The first biggie was back in March when we had a southbound CN train in Valleyfield Quebec flipped over 4 three-banger stacks. The second on was near Adams New York, when a southbound train derailed 17 cars in June. The third one was just last month when another southbound near Watertown New York, derailed 24 cars. The other 5 smaller ones were either 1 or 2 cars or just engines either on spurs or in the yards. Every derailment has benn caused by bad track. Mostly rotten roadbed, mudholes in the tracks or wide guage. Luckily to this day none of these goofs have incured spilling of any hazardous material except maybe deisel fuel from the locos. But when you are haulin chlorine, propane, anhydrous amonia, and hydrcloric acid, this could make for an awfully sticky situation. The latest derailment sent the crew to the hospital because the lead loco took a 35MPH ride into a ditch. This scares the bejesus out of most of us who work here in the North Country. Has any one else heard of any other major trouble spots on CSX mainly, or are all the railroads suffering from " deferred maintenance."