Speed on minds of Amtrak supporters of old Blackhawk line

[Chris30]

Jclass, you've got the route that should be used.

Anybody notice on the picture of the 1974 Blackhawk schedule how long it took to get from Chicago to Elmhurst? 55 min non stop. An all stop local on the Metra UP West Line only takes @30-35 min to cover the same distance.

CC

[Krazykat112079]

Bert, you're absolutely right--Huntley has built up over the past several years at least as much as Elburn has.  I haven't really visited Marengo for decades, so I can't comment on that one.  By the same token, I'm a little surprised that consideration wasn't given to extending UP West to Maple Park (right at the Kane-DeKalb County line), which is far from the cozy-looking little place it appeared to be ten years ago!

Having grown up near Huntley, I've been able to watch it grow for the past 20 years.  There has been a huge expansion in the entire area and Metra would be an excellent addition.  Even out to Marengo, it would be useful. (With a mandatory stop in Union for the IRM)  Slowly adding the infrastructure for this would not only benefit commuters along the line, but make further expansion to Belvidere (in 10, 20, whatever years) cheaper and more feasible.

While they are at it (because they will probably want to double track it), they could hopefully do some preemptive grade separation in an area that is bound to densify within the next 50 years.

Just my

[jclass]

CC,

Another "wish it would be" route is CN from Rockford to Genoa, build a connector there to ICE (Milw) where the two lines cross, then to Elgin, and the Metra line to Franklin Park at Mannheim (would be a short shuttle ride from there to O'Hare), and into Union Station.  That would be the most direct route, and potentially a fast one.

Took the City of... trains from Davis Jct. into Chicago in the early 60's.  That was a nice fast run with domes to boot.  My Mom had relatives in Aurora.  Back in the 30's, she'd take a Q local that ran from Rockford to Rochelle to Aurora. 

Rockford has been trying to promote its airport as an alternate to Chicago for eons.  It's just never flown.  To route a train to the airport today would make for some very slow running. 

 

[eolafan]

The UP West Line was recently extended to Elburn, not Huntley.

Correct, and my error and apologies to Bert.

[Poppa_Zit]

Carl, don't be surprised that consideration wasn't given to extending the Metra UP West Line to Maple Park. I'm sure some consideration was given. Money was probably the main issue. Lets not forget that UP had a deal in place to build the Global III facility there before the residents of Maple Park rejected it. They didn't want a rail yard in their town. Metra wasn't going to extend the West Line unless they could build a coach yard at the end of the line.

CC

Maple Park's residents hope to keep the town's Mayberry-ish flavor forever.... but then again, so did the people living in LaFox....

[n012944]

This is precisely the point.  We need two services here:  Amtrak to Rockford and Dubuque (twice daily would be good) via the old IC line (which CN will want to have upgraded before they allow it, no doubt), and an extension of Metra's Milwaukee West line from (roughly) Elgin over the former CNW line through Huntley, Marengo, Union, and Belvidere to Rockford, providing a more frequent service.  I suspect that both services could be started for less than the cost of an added lane on I-90 between Elgin and Rockford.

Extending Metra's Milwaukee West service to Belvidere or Rockford would require an Act of the Illinois General Assembly, since Boone and Winnebago Counties are not part of the Regional Transportation Authority's statutory service area (Cook DuPage, Will, Kane, McHenry and Lake Counties).  I don't foresee that event happening anytime soon.

I agree.  I think the best way to get Metra into Rockford is to take baby steps.  Get Metra to start service on the CNW line to at least Huntley, or better yet Marengo.  Both those towns are located in McHenry county and would provide the foundation for extended service on the line at a later point.

 

Bert

News flash for Bert, METRA already goes to Huntley via the U.P. (formerly C&NW) West line.

 Jim, Huntley is not on the west line but the Rockford line.  I think you are thinking of Elburn, which Metra just extended service too a couple of years ago.  Huntley is located on RT 47 NORTH of I90.  Huntley is the first city east of IRM.

 

Bert

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

This 1974 Black Hawk schedule shows it operating with RDCs.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=43331

Was it still using RDCs when it was cancelled on December 30, 1981 ?

By then, it was operating with an F40PH and three Amfleet cars.

[nanaimo73]

This 1974 Black Hawk schedule shows it operating with RDCs.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=43331

Was it still using RDCs when it was cancelled on December 30, 1981 ?

[Chris30]

One issue with the original ex-IC route... It will serve Dubuque, Galena, Freeport & Rockford. After Rockford, then what? Straight through to Chicago? The CN line is freight only - no Metra stations / suburban connections. And the routing at the east end of the CN into Union Station looks a little tricky, if not very congested. The UP Belvidere branch has the best potential, but I agree that it would be better served as a commuter route.

Lets have a little fun... I don't what the cost of this would be and I don't know the travel time. Heck, I'm not even sure if the rails connect in the Rockford area! CN from Dubuque to Galena, Freeport and Rockford. Normal so far. Then, south on the IL Railnet past a station at the Rockford airport to Davis Jct. and the BNSF C&I Line. Southeast on the BNSF for the short distance to UP crossing at Rochelle where the connecting track to the UP Geneva Sub will have to be put back in. Next east on the UP Geneva Sub with station stops at Rochelle (rail park), DeKalb (college town), Geneva (historic downtown & shopping / Metra connection) and Oak Park (CTA transfer). At Westen Ave (A2) cross over to the Milwaukee District main and then into Union Station. With this routing Amtrak would get all of the normal freight train delays that it usually gets.

Carl, don't be surprised that consideration wasn't given to extending the Metra UP West Line to Maple Park. I'm sure some consideration was given. Money was probably the main issue. Lets not forget that UP had a deal in place to build the Global III facility there before the residents of Maple Park rejected it. They didn't want a rail yard in their town. Metra wasn't going to extend the West Line unless they could build a coach yard at the end of the line.

CC

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The UP West Line was recently extended to Elburn, not Huntley.

[eolafan]

This is precisely the point.  We need two services here:  Amtrak to Rockford and Dubuque (twice daily would be good) via the old IC line (which CN will want to have upgraded before they allow it, no doubt), and an extension of Metra's Milwaukee West line from (roughly) Elgin over the former CNW line through Huntley, Marengo, Union, and Belvidere to Rockford, providing a more frequent service.  I suspect that both services could be started for less than the cost of an added lane on I-90 between Elgin and Rockford.

Extending Metra's Milwaukee West service to Belvidere or Rockford would require an Act of the Illinois General Assembly, since Boone and Winnebago Counties are not part of the Regional Transportation Authority's statutory service area (Cook DuPage, Will, Kane, McHenry and Lake Counties).  I don't foresee that event happening anytime soon.

I agree.  I think the best way to get Metra into Rockford is to take baby steps.  Get Metra to start service on the CNW line to at least Huntley, or better yet Marengo.  Both those towns are located in McHenry county and would provide the foundation for extended service on the line at a later point.

 

Bert

News flash for Bert, METRA already goes to Huntley via the U.P. (formerly C&NW) West line.

[daveklepper]

A business trip about twelve years ago took me to Glencoe, IL, and Rockford.   Did it all by train and auto.  The Broadway from New York, slogged through the snow to the Northwestern Transportation Center with test equipment, and rode Metra to Glenco.  Returned via Metra, and planned to connect with the Harvard train at Clyde?, but it was snowing very hard, and the conductor said to stay on until Chicago, and he would ask for the Harvard train to be held 'till I boarded.   Two-minute connecting time.   Everything was on time, I hustled, and the train left on time, and the client picked me up at Harvard for the drive, still in the snow, to Rockford.   Client wanted as much information as possible and drive me back to Chicago, in the blizzard, so we would continue the conversation, and I boarded the Lake Shore back to White Plains, NY, debarking at Croton Harmon.  First sight of sunshine in about four or five days.  Four hours late.

On the train to Harvard, as the crowd thinned, lower level of gallery car, reversed a seat, but suitcases between, stretched out and slept until awakened by the conductor coming into Harvard.

[snagletooth]

 

Rockford's urban planners are aiming at consolidating rail to the CN(IC) line with one rail bridge over the Rock River.  The other bridges would be abandoned or converted for other use.  Though they are trying to revitalize the S. Main St. area, the place to have the Rockford station for today's reality is Alpine Rd. or Perryville.

 I didn't know that. Well, a connection track btween UP and IC, and, now the BNSF & ICE would be needed in east Rockford, As I stated before. UP to Rockford would still be the best  route.

If people want it to happen now, and to have the train serve Freeport, the Galena Territory, and Dubuque, the IC line would have to be it.  It was slow going from Broadview into Union Station, and a four hour trip from Dubuque to Chicago back then.

 It's not west of Rockford that anyones debating, it's EAST of Rockford. 

(Dubuque would be better served by the BNSF TC Zephyr route through Rochelle and Aurora).

I agree there, but that doesn't have to do with Rockford, Freeport, Belvidere, Merango, or even, Huntley, Union, Genoa, Ect., ect. And Aurora can't be served by Amtrack anymore since they built the new Transportation Center unless they rebuild they old track up the hill at Spring St., which BNSF has said will never happen. And they'd need a helper if it did. BN (and Q) needed a switcher on top of the E's to make that (what, a 3% grade) hill. and they'd miss most of the platform doing it.  

(Hope that the history-minded get pictures of the ex Galena and Chicago Union bridge in Rockford before it's too late).

And if you want to get historical, Q want out because their was hardling no one  boarding or disboarding between Aurora and LaCross. IC wanted out because noone was boarding between Chicago and Freeport. MlWK wanted out because noone was boarding. And that's only Illinois sections (OK, Q is into WI.)

[jclass]

I rode the Blackhawk several times back in the 70's as well as the Hawkeye and Land O' Corn before it.  The Blackhawk made a suburban stop at Elmhurst.

Rockford's urban planners are aiming at consolidating rail to the CN(IC) line with one rail bridge over the Rock River.  The other bridges would be abandoned or converted for other use.  Though they are trying to revitalize the S. Main St. area, the place to have the Rockford station for today's reality is Alpine Rd. or Perryville.

If people want it to happen now, and to have the train serve Freeport, the Galena Territory, and Dubuque, the IC line would have to be it.  It was slow going from Broadview into Union Station, and a four hour trip from Dubuque to Chicago back then.

(Dubuque would be better served by the BNSF TC Zephyr route through Rochelle and Aurora).

(Hope that the history-minded get pictures of the ex Galena and Chicago Union bridge in Rockford before it's too late).

[CShaveRR]

You're right about the counties involved in Metra, Paul.  However, I was reading about extension of the commuter service to Rockford (instigated, IIRC, by some people and/or politicoes at the Rockford end), long before this recent ballyhoo about expanded Amtrak service.

One more thing about a commuter service--it would be possible, if not desirable, to have several stops in the Rockford area.  For example, the train could come into town on CNW, then head out on the ICE to the Rockford airport, perhaps.  A DMU could be used if the service didn't justify an entire locomotive-hauled train.

Bert, you're absolutely right--Huntley has built up over the past several years at least as much as Elburn has.  I haven't really visited Marengo for decades, so I can't comment on that one.  By the same token, I'm a little surprised that consideration wasn't given to extending UP West to Maple Park (right at the Kane-DeKalb County line), which is far from the cozy-looking little place it appeared to be ten years ago!

[n012944]

This is precisely the point.  We need two services here:  Amtrak to Rockford and Dubuque (twice daily would be good) via the old IC line (which CN will want to have upgraded before they allow it, no doubt), and an extension of Metra's Milwaukee West line from (roughly) Elgin over the former CNW line through Huntley, Marengo, Union, and Belvidere to Rockford, providing a more frequent service.  I suspect that both services could be started for less than the cost of an added lane on I-90 between Elgin and Rockford.

Extending Metra's Milwaukee West service to Belvidere or Rockford would require an Act of the Illinois General Assembly, since Boone and Winnebago Counties are not part of the Regional Transportation Authority's statutory service area (Cook DuPage, Will, Kane, McHenry and Lake Counties).  I don't foresee that event happening anytime soon.

I agree.  I think the best way to get Metra into Rockford is to take baby steps.  Get Metra to start service on the CNW line to at least Huntley, or better yet Marengo.  Both those towns are located in McHenry county and would provide the foundation for extended service on the line at a later point.

 

Bert

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

This is precisely the point.  We need two services here:  Amtrak to Rockford and Dubuque (twice daily would be good) via the old IC line (which CN will want to have upgraded before they allow it, no doubt), and an extension of Metra's Milwaukee West line from (roughly) Elgin over the former CNW line through Huntley, Marengo, Union, and Belvidere to Rockford, providing a more frequent service.  I suspect that both services could be started for less than the cost of an added lane on I-90 between Elgin and Rockford.

Extending Metra's Milwaukee West service to Belvidere or Rockford would require an Act of the Illinois General Assembly, since Boone and Winnebago Counties are not part of the Regional Transportation Authority's statutory service area (Cook DuPage, Will, Kane, McHenry and Lake Counties).  I don't foresee that event happening anytime soon.

[DMUinCT]

Amtrak wanted to re-open service from Boston to Portland Maine, one round trip a day!  First the track would have to be upgraded to 79 mph service, track owned by the Gilford Rail System (ex B&M). Second Gilford opposed having to work there freight trains around the Amtrak "Downeaster" time table. 

Well, Amtrak won.  The public loved it!  Service has now expanded to three round trips a day and towns along the way are adding stations.  If you build it, they will come.

[CShaveRR]

This is precisely the point.  We need two services here:  Amtrak to Rockford and Dubuque (twice daily would be good) via the old IC line (which CN will want to have upgraded before they allow it, no doubt), and an extension of Metra's Milwaukee West line from (roughly) Elgin over the former CNW line through Huntley, Marengo, Union, and Belvidere to Rockford, providing a more frequent service.  I suspect that both services could be started for less than the cost of an added lane on I-90 between Elgin and Rockford.

[snagletooth]

 I'd really like to see it on the UP. you've got West chicago, Elgin, Marengo, Belvidere. Not to mention  it goes right past IRM. the only problem would be building a connecting track from UP to IC on the east side of Rockford. What does the IC have? Genoa, then what? Nothing out there until inner city Chicago.

[Poppa_Zit]

If Amtrak prefers a Chicago-Dubuque train uses CN (IC), would a train just to Rockford be better off run by Metra, on the UP (C&NW) ?

There would have to be a renaissance in how Metra is funded, then, because the folks in the 12-county Chicago area who pay most of the freight (no pun intended) for Metra would rail (oops, sorry again) against subsidizing such a route serving communities between Elgin and Dubuque. And I doubt the ticket revenue on such a route would cover the additional expenses.

PZ

[nanaimo73]

If Amtrak prefers a Chicago-Dubuque train uses CN (IC), would a train just to Rockford be better off run by Metra, on the UP (C&NW) ?

[Poppa_Zit]

Speed on the minds of Amtrak supporters

By Thomas V. Bona

ROCKFORD REGISTER STAR

ROCKFORD - Jo Ann Jenkins was in favor of the Amtrak route that went past Davis Junction and the Chicago/Rockford International Airport. Then she saw the numbers Tuesday. Now she supports the old Blackhawk line that runs through Elmhurst and Genoa.

"It can probably be started quicker," Jenkins, a Rockford resident, said at Tuesday's public informational meeting about the three proposed Amtrak routes.

Speed was the key for residents Tuesday - they wanted whichever route could get them to Chicago the fastest and could be put in place the soonest.

According to Amtrak's feasibility study, the old Blackhawk line would be the fastest, would cost the least and would get the most passengers. For most of the 60 residents at Tuesday's meeting, that was a good enough reason to support it.

"I think it's the most direct route from Rockford to Chicago," said Jenkins' son, Brian Leggero of Rockford.

Leaders are trying to get Amtrak back here for the first time since 1981. A train a day would go from Dubuque, Iowa, through Rockford to Chicago and back.

The Illinois Department of Transportation hopes to choose a route by the end of May, said George Weber, acting chief of IDOT's railroad division. He said Tuesday's turnout was good, and the public comments will help officials make the decision.

There was some support Tuesday for the route that goes through Marengo and Belvidere.

Jim Pyfer of Caledonia questioned Amtrak's ridership projections. He thinks there are more people along the Belvidere route who would use the train than along the alternatives.

He and Harvey Kahler, a railroad advocate from Chicago, thought the old Blackhawk line would be too congested.

"Two things killed Amtrak service before: the location of the station in Rockford and the time it took to get from Rockford to Chicago," Pyfer said. Kahler thought Amtrak was too optimistic about the speed of the old Blackhawk line when it travels through Chicago.

Amtrak officials stood by their numbers, which have the Blackhawk route 45 minutes quicker between Chicago and Rockford.

Residents agreed that another key is Rockford city bus service to the Amtrak station. If the train didn't stop at the airport, buses could connect the two also, some said.

There was a lot of support for an east-side station somewhere between Perryville and Alpine roads, and several people said that was more important than restoring the downtown station.

David Dobson of Rockford said he saw both sides when it came to the debate on routes. While he slightly prefers the old Blackhawk route, his ultimate preference - like just about everyone else - was [to] get the first train here as soon as possible.

How to comment:

Send comments via e-mail at www.dot.il.gov/amtrak/amtrak.asp or by mail to: Illinois Department of Transportation, Bureau of Railroads, Attn. George Weber, 300 W. Adams St., Second Floor, Chicago, IL 60606.

What's next

Public comments on the three proposed Amtrak routes will be accepted until May 4. The Illinois Department of Transportation will choose a route soon after that. Construction would start next year. Train service could start by the end of 2009.