another maglev idea

[Anonymous]

I would like to address several of the items I have seen in this forum.

CONCERNING MAGLEV TRAINS OPERATING TODAY

The Superman ride is not a maglev train at all. The cars have steel wheels with solid polyproylene tires riding on steel rails. It is powered by a linear electric motor, which is one of the components of maglev technology...the one used to propel the train forward or backward.

There are currently four major maglev projects in the world today. One is the Transrapid test facility in Lathen, Germany. At this test facility, a consortium of ThyssenKrupp and Siemens (The GE and Westinghouse of Germany) have been testing maglev trains at speeds in excess of 300 miles per hour since the 1980's. I have had the priveledge of riding the Transrapid test train. Even in a heavy crosswind, the train provided a ride so smooth I could stand up in the aisle without holding onto anything. While standing, I snapped a picture of the speedometer (displayed on the ceiling of every car) reading 403 KPS (Kilometer Pro Stunde...German for Kilometers per hour). The second is a Transrapid system operating in revenue service as an airport connection in Shanghai, China between the financial district and the international airport. The third is the Japanese superconducting maglev "Shinkansen" train. It is expected to be on the market for revenue service routes in a couple of years. The third is an underfunded project in Hampton Roads, Virginia. At the quaint little Old Dominion University, a consortium of GE, Lockheed, and ODU are working together to put the finishing touches on a hand-built maglev train that runs over about a half mile of track through the ODU campus. Due to a lack of sufficient engineering staff and funding, the system is not working properly yet. The single car moves along the guideway, but the ride is not smooth or safe.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE MAGNETS FAIL?

This actually answers sever questions in one. The Japanese system does not levitate until it exceeds 100 MPH. Before it hits that speed, it rides on a retractable landing gear, just like an aircraft. The German Transrapid system has a different solution. The Transrapid uses a combination of induction magnets in the guideway, battery powered electromagnets in the trains, and induction electromagnets in the train. The induction magnets only create a magnetic field when the train is moving and inducing a current in them. The linear electric motor which propels the train uses a separate system of electromagnets to propel the train. As a result, the train's motion generates the necessary magnetic fields to do the heavy lifting. The trains motion also generates the necessary electricity to keep the onboard batteries charged. Electricity from outside is only necessary to propel the train forward. Cutting off the electrical supply will not cause the train to "fall." The train will simply rely on its own batteries to keep the train levitated until it comes to a complete stop. The batteries provide enough juice for the train to "hover" for up to half an hour. When the trains are stopped in stations, they "settle" onto the guideway to conserve juice. Upon departure, they "lift off" and continue on their way. Stability is provided by superfast computers that constantly adjust the power of the magnetic field to keep the train within its proper location tolerances. If some extenuating circumstances caused the train to "fall," the train would simply settle onto the guideway and scrape itself to a stop, but the engineers have provided the necessary skids on the undersides of the cars to allow that to happen with a minimum of damage. If you wonder if this is possible, may I remind you that the Wright Flyer and the X-15 both landed on skids and survived to fly again.

WHY ARE MAGLEV'S STREAMLINED?

Maglevs are streamlined for the same reason regular trains are streamlined and why my Lincoln Mark VIII gets better gas mileage than my mother's Ford Explorer despite the fact that my Lincoln has a far bigger engine. It takes less propulsive energy to push a streamlined train through the atmosphere than a boxy one. Technically, the Transrapid technology, which uses "Longstator" technology just needs physically bigger magnets on the guideway to provide more power (Just like adding a locomotive), but it still makes sense to use the minimum amount of energy necessary to get the train from point A to point B.

[TH&B]

Well I took another look at some of the maglev sites posted and I did read even though it floats that there still will be air resistance. Of course.
Thanks

[TH&B]

If wind and air are NOT a factor then why are maglevs streamlined? Don't tell me just for looks.

[ironhorseman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Magnetism and gravity are not the same thing. First off, magnetism only works on ferrous metals. Aluminum is not attracted to magnets. Gravity affects everything.
Two completely different things.

So how much have you guys that are pumping this maglev concept actually ante'd up?
Have you put your money where your mouth is?

Dave H.

Gravitation and magetism work on the same priciples: it's the attractivness of two objects toward each other. Actually gravity has to do with weight and heaviness. Magnetism works like gravitation.

Now, why whould I put my money where my mouth is? Money goes in banks, not the mouth. What is this anit-maglev phenomenon? Everytime someone tries to bring up a discussion on maglevs there's always someone quick to try to shoot it down? It's just like the anti-SUV crowd. Maglevs are trains, too.

It was once predicted that the railroad would never come as far as it has. It was supposed to be just a novel joy ride for the rich.

I'm going to look into some of these maglev companies' stock and if it the price hasn't already skyrocketed I'll make an investment. Then I'll be laughing all the way to the bank. Aaaaaaalllllll the way HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH [:D] AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! [:D] You guys do what you want with your money.

[dehusman]

Magnetism and gravity are not the same thing. First off, magnetism only works on ferrous metals. Aluminum is not attracted to magnets. Gravity affects everything.
Two completely different things.

So how much have you guys that are pumping this maglev concept actually ante'd up?
Have you put your money where your mouth is?

Dave H.

[ironhorseman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

Since there are no tracks,are maglev systems acually considered trains?There is a major problem for us milage collectors.With no tracks,the milage woulden't count.[:(]

OK, I'm back from my researching but I'm running out of time so I'll make this quick.

To answer the question "is it still a train with no tracks?" the person who manages the website http://www.o-keating.com/hsr/maglev.htm brought up an interesting point that the dictionary definition of train is a line of vehicles traveling in the same directions. Pulling out my dictionary there are at least 18 definitions for a train, 9 as nouns and 9 transitive verbss. #3, as noun, is a group of people, animals, vehicals following in a line, procession, caravan, etc. #9, a line of connected railroad cars pulled or pushed by a locomotive or locomotives.

So train is a line things going the same direction (not necessarily connected). Specifically, we have railroad trains and we have maglev trains. The magnev is not necessarily a railroad unless you call it's track a rail. You'll have to look rail up in the dictionary and compare it to a maglev track
(see these websites for more info:
http://www.maglevpa.com/
http://www.maglevinc.com/
http://www.maglev2000.com/ )

As for mileage: maglev runs on a track, but do we count it's milage odometer? I would guess maybe by optical scanner. If milepost markers were placed at least every 1/10th of a mile/km the train could scan the milepost code and tabulate it's total lifetime traveled distance (if such things were necessary).

[espeefoamer]

Since there are no tracks,are maglev systems acually considered trains?There is a major problem for us milage collectors.With no tracks,the milage woulden't count.[:(]

[ironhorseman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by talbanese

What if the train had some wheels that only made contact if the system failed/stopped. This would provide a safer crash. The train could glide to a safe stop.

-Tom

I'm going to assume that the impression here is that if there is a power failure, the the electro magnets failed, the the maglev would, in a sense, "fall" and thus touch the track. The major concern being if this happened at 350+mph.

If that assumption is correct then from looking all through the maglev website that point has not been presented, but I'm sure the engineers have thought of this.

1st: Probably, most likely, the maglev will never fall. It will always be in hover mode. It doesn't ever fall to the track no matter if there is a power failure or not. It may have something to do with magnets in the train or on the track.

2nd: It's possible there is some kind of buffer that if the train did drop because of power failure the train could come to a smooth stop. This could either be wheels or pads or something. But I'm almost sure the train always hovers no matter what. I'll do some digging to find the info.

The website explains breaking methods using magnets.

Understand that the websites on maglev are not meant to explain all the technology in scientific jargon. The presentations are made so the general public can understand them and so that potential customers can understand them.

[Anonymous]

What if the train had some wheels that only made contact if the system failed/stopped. This would provide a safer crash. The train could glide to a safe stop.

-Tom

[ironhorseman]

The vacuum tube will not work at all. Only NASA has a vacuum chamber. The doors are really really thick and it takes 3-5 hours to close the chamber and a couple hours to remove all the air and pressure to vacuum status.

Besides, a vacuum tube is totally unnessary, the maglev doens't push air. It's aerodynamic, light weight, and is guided by a track. One thing makes it all possible: GRAVITY. Magnets are gravity. The train doesnt' have to touch the guide track, but it's wrap around design keeps it on the track at all times and never touching the track.

Go to the Transrapid Maglev Systems website and

See page 2 for Comparison of Systems:
http://www.transrapid.de/en/medien/praesentation/2.html

Page 3 for System Components:
http://www.transrapid.de/en/medien/praesentation/3.html

Page 4 for Linear Motor:
http://www.transrapid.de/en/medien/praesentation/4.html

Page 5 for Propulsion Principle:
http://www.transrapid.de/en/medien/praesentation/5.html

Page 15 or Safty (wrap around design:
http://www.transrapid.de/en/medien/praesentation/16.html

All the illustrations on the preceding pages of that website clearly demonstate how it works. In fact, the maglev doesn't really need to be aerodynamic, the magnets do all the work. The magnets could propell an unaerodyamic cube at high speeds.

According to the History Channel there is already one successful maglev and that's the Superman ride at some amusement park. It shoots riders foward the straight upward where earth's gravity takes over again when magnets shut off and pulls the people backwards, fast to earth.

The History Channel also predicts that the maglev system will be used to propell space vehichles into orbit. That might be a little far fetched however. But the rest of the History Channel's presentation on maglev systems was excellent.

I can see where you might think the downforce would pu***he maglev down to scraping the track. When a stockcar reaches high speeds on a super speedway the nose of the car is pushed down to just milimeters from the pavement which helps to enhance the aerodymics of the car and increase the speed. The spoiler is meant to keep the back end of the car down on the ground. That's why if the spoiler is not the perfect regulation length or shape NASCAR won't let the car out onto the track. There's a limit for stockcars, however. At about 200mph the car is endangered of lifting off the ground like an airplane. If the car had wings and an air propulsion engine it could sustain flight, but because it dosn't it usually just flips up in the air causing a spectacular and scary crash.

Maglevs are in no such danger. Even if they had wings the wrap around design and the power of the magnets keep the train from lifting or downforce effects. If the track is strong enough to sustain hurricane or tornado force winds the maglev could travel through such storm systems. The body of the train may not be able to sustain the projectiles created by the storm, but it would still keep going.

WIND AND AIR ARE NOT A FACTOR.

Maglevs may not be a replacement for conventional trains, it might just end up being another mode of transportation.

[dehusman]

So how much faster/cheaper/more efficient will it be to not go through the atmosphere. A double track maglev costs something like $17 million per km to build. How much more will it cost to build a pressure tube around it and then evacuate the air for a couple hundred miles.

Another aspect I would like to hear is how you are going to get people on and off the maglev. If you open the doors on the maglev to let the people out, the vaccuum will suck the air out of the cars, if you open the tube to let the people in it will fill the tube with air, destroying your vaccuum.

You could have some sort of "docking ring" that would extend from the doors on the cars to the doors on the station tube that would seal the vaccuum. Of course that will mean you have to stop the train precisely in front of the doorways so everything lines up.
Or you could have some sort of airlock for each station. The train stops, the airlock for the station, closes, the tube is presurized, the passengers are admitted to the station for loading/unloading, the station air is evacuated and then the air locks opened.

Maybe that's why they operat through good old regular air.

Dave H.

[TH&B]

.... I guess it would just comes to a grinding stop with flying sparks ..
As you know jet planes crash because of engine failure at 30000" is as rare as serious crashes from derailments or sriking something. The reason they fly so high is because the atmophere is lighter and its easier to reach such speeds. It's getting up to that hieght that drains the fuel tanks hence short flights are ridiculus but good for long flights. I still don't see the big advantage of torpedoing along at ground level pushing all that air!?!?!?!?!

[dharmon]

Yeah right up to the point where the mag stops leving.....

[Anonymous]

Simple, if you can get 350 mph without the risk of being 30.000 feet above the ground when your engines quit, you come to a gentle stop. The other stop is rather harsh.

[TH&B]

I'm not realy pro-maglev but if you were to run a maglev in a vacume tube tunnel you might have a frictionless transportation system for hi-speed. Of course passengers would ride in pesurized cabins. Otherwise what's the point in spending billions to propel a train at speeds like a jet plane through the dense atmosphere 5' off the ground.